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Topic:
Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
10/11/07 11:38am
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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PMT99 posted:
Even if Anakin had let Padme die, he'll still succumb to the Dark Side because he'll feel that he has failed again at saving a loved one from dying. You say that Obi-wan taught Anakin everything he needed to know but according to the ROTS novelization, he didn't teach Anakin how to think so no matter what, Anakin doesn't have the cerebral strength to resist the Dark Side.
The how to think was a line that was in the film, but deleted and replaced. All Obi-wan said was that he failed him. All Anakin needed to do was accept that people die and that he cannot save them. She won't die, because he won't kill her. She dies because he tries to save her. By doing nothing, will she live. By not having fear in his heart, he will be fine.
PMT99 posted:
The guidelines only work for Luke because the Jedi gave him a visualization of what the Dark Side can do via Darth Vader and the cave. Plus, the fact that Luke found out that Darth Vader is his father gave him all the more reason to not join the Dark Side. The Jedi only gave Anakin the "fear is the path" speech but it was too vague for him to understand and even when he had Maul and Dooku for visual ID, it wasn't enough since none of them are Anakin's father just as he himself is Luke's father. As you said before, it didn't help that Anakin had Palpatine playing head-twister with him as a way of turning him against the Jedi while Luke had the luxury of not having Palps around him for years which aided him in his blocking out the Dark Side. Just because the Jedi have to let go of their emotions doesn't mean that it'll go away for they are bonded with us all and whatever happens, even a Jedi has to feel something.
Anakin had a father in Obi-wan. Unfortunately, he had Palpatine as the "cool uncle". But while I agree that Palpatine did his part, Anakin had to be the one to accept not only his training but the way of life.
A Jedi can feel something, but they are not allowed to let it control them. A Jedi must not let their emotions get in the way of their duty as Jedi and they cannot let their emotions drive them to use the Force in inappropriate ways. Finding out Anakin was his father wasn't enough, as Luke kept skirting close to the dark side. What saved him was the realization that he was too much like his father, just as Yoda said.
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anakin_luver
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/5 5:10pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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i remember this topic, and i wanted to bump it up to see what people think after such a long time 
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/5 5:34pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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anakin_luver posted:
i remember this topic, and i wanted to bump it up to see what people think after such a long time
Pretty much the same as ever. Time goes by, the world may change. People may change, but the opinions of posters on TFN never changes 
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
1/5 11:57pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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I still think he was, so I have to agree with Rossa.
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anakin_luver
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/6 3:23pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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haha Rossa! you're right.
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
1/6 8:20pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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Dunedain1 posted:
While Anakin certainly had some good qualities, and those ultimately would shine through before the end, I don't see how he could be seen as anything other than failure as a Jedi Knight in the prequels. He let his own fears, pride and fascination with the attainment of power draw him over to the dark side. He then betrayed the Jedi Order, aided in the murder of several Jedi, and did the same to the Trade Federation representatives who's side he was supposed to be on at that point. Plus he joined the sith, both his and the Jedi Order's sworn enemy, then he tried to kill Obi-Wan, his master and best friend, and then, in his new guise as Darth Vader, embarked on a campaign of terror to try to subjugate the entire galaxy. If that doesn't qualify as being a failure as a Jedi Knight, I don't see what does.
To me, the Jedi failed Anakin. He wanted all his life to become a Jedi, but most of the masters initially fobbed him off, sans Qui-Gon. He was the only one in my opinion that wanted the best for anakin, and was willing to train him, against the council's wishes. When Qui-Gon died, Anakin basically lost the only father figure he ever had. Obi-Wan took Qui-Gon's place as Anakin's master. And then there was palpatine, filling his head with who knows what during those 10 years between TPM and AOTC.
If Qui-Gon was still alive, I believe that anakin would not have turned into the repressesed teenager we know him now.
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
1/7 3:23am
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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I think Anakin was a failure as a jedi. He allowed his own greed to get the better of him and as a result a lot of people died.
I think if Qui-Gon had lived it wouldnt have changed things. Anakins to self centered, he still would have turned his back on all the people who looked after him since he was young.
To be honest IMO he comes across as being dumb more than anything else.
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/7 5:32am
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET posted:
I think Anakin was a failure as a jedi. He allowed his own greed to get the better of him and as a result a lot of people died.
I think if Qui-Gon had lived it wouldnt have changed things. Anakins to self centered, he still would have turned his back on all the people who looked after him since he was young.
To be honest IMO he comes across as being dumb more than anything else.
Yes... Dumb.. I agree.. 
I never considered Anakin greedy, though. He wanted glory and power and was self-involved; he had the classic Greek heroic failing of "hubris." "I'm the chosen one. la la la. I don't have to listen to the rules. bla bla bla. "
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
1/7 5:45am
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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LemmingLord posted:
DARTH-SMELLY-FEET posted:
I think Anakin was a failure as a jedi. He allowed his own greed to get the better of him and as a result a lot of people died.
I think if Qui-Gon had lived it wouldnt have changed things. Anakins to self centered, he still would have turned his back on all the people who looked after him since he was young.
To be honest IMO he comes across as being dumb more than anything else.
Yes... Dumb.. I agree..
I never considered Anakin greedy, though. He wanted glory and power and was self-involved; he had the classic Greek heroic failing of "hubris." "I'm the chosen one. la la la. I don't have to listen to the rules. bla bla bla. "
Well, the chosen one was due to the Jedi belief, not on anakin's part. Besides, you think that with him being the so called chosen one, and the fact that he is too old, you think the Jedi would have been more involved in his training.
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/7 12:04pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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True... I always assumed that the reason Obi Wan felt so responsible was that there weren't many other Jedi around who might help him... But Yoda has a great opportunity to both notice Anakin's pain and to help him with it in ROTS... and he fails big time too!! But just because the Jedi are partly to blame doesn't make Anakin any better of a Jedi!!! He's a terrible Jedi!
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LemmingLord
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RamRed
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/7 9:21pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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Who cares if Anakin was a terrible Jedi? Since when is being a Jedi supposed to be the ultimate of existence in the STAR WARS saga?
Anakin's problem is that by ROTS, he had failed as an individual. He had failed himself, whether he was a Jedi or not. And to be honest, I can say the same about the other major characters in the PT.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
1/8 1:19am
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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LemmingLord posted:
DARTH-SMELLY-FEET posted:
I think Anakin was a failure as a jedi. He allowed his own greed to get the better of him and as a result a lot of people died.
I think if Qui-Gon had lived it wouldnt have changed things. Anakins to self centered, he still would have turned his back on all the people who looked after him since he was young.
To be honest IMO he comes across as being dumb more than anything else.
Yes... Dumb.. I agree..
I never considered Anakin greedy, though. He wanted glory and power and was self-involved; he had the classic Greek heroic failing of "hubris." "I'm the chosen one. la la la. I don't have to listen to the rules. bla bla bla. "
He definitely works in the classical model of a hero who falls because of his hubris. I'd say it's his hubris combined with his fear. The latter simply leads to all of his other issues such as an inability to let go.
RamRed posted:
Who cares if Anakin was a terrible Jedi? Since when is being a Jedi supposed to be the ultimate of existence in the STAR WARS saga?
Anakin's problem is that by ROTS, he had failed as an individual. He had failed himself, whether he was a Jedi or not. And to be honest, I can say the same about the other major characters in the PT.
Anakin seemed to value being a Jedi quite highly prior to his fall, so I think it's a fair criticism.
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"Wars not make one great." - Yoda
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
1/8 4:02pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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RamRed posted:
Who cares if Anakin was a terrible Jedi?
The original poster of the thread cares; or at least cares enough to pose the question "Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi."
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LemmingLord
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
1/8 4:50pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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I do care, but I thought it would be good to have a more substantive response.
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"Wars not make one great." - Yoda
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anakin_luver
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/8 6:56pm
Subject:
RE: Was Anakin Skywalker a failure as a Jedi in the Prequels?
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well, i think RamRed is just simply trying to say that failing as a Jedi is nothing when compared to failing as a person, a human being.
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