Master_Starwalker posted:Palpatine had shot lightning out of his hands. That's all the proof the Jedi need that he's a Sith.
SHAD0W-JEDI posted:Hmmm...lets see... Fundamental Dishonesty?... (A LOT of lying)....Check. MASSIVE Ego? Check.... Enormous "GREED" (Must have it ALL, and on HIS terms)? Check... Penchant for excessive violence? Check... Dangerous temper? Check.... Flirtation with the idea of rule by an "enlightened" few? Check... Willingness to betray friends and colleagues? Check... Dabbling in "war crimes"? Wholesale slaughter? Check... HUGE Control Issues? Check... Yeah, I'd say that ultimately Anakin was about as big a failure as a Jedi as there can be.
SHAD0W-JEDI posted:For me, even when Vader/Anakin ultimately turned on the Emperor... I felt it was more true that there was SOME good in him, than it was to say he "turned good". I like the scene, and yes, it IS powerful, but ultimately, he DOES act to save his own SON.
SHAD0W-JEDI posted: XX ANAKIN XX: Actually, I agree with MUCH of what you say. One reason that I get very tired of SW fans putting down the Prequels is that while they may have their flaws, the "first" three movies present a much more mature, complex, and interesting storyline than they are given credit for. The story of Anakin's fall is really fascinating, and it defintely changed the way I saw Vader, in a very profound and irrevocable way.
shadow-jedi posted:And I appreciate your insights re Vader's "final turn". When I was much younger, it DEFINITELY got to me that we were, apparently, supposed to believe that five minutes of "heroics" negated decades of evil and mass murder...and at that point, I hadn't even seen the betrayal of the Jedi or the killing of the children in the Jedi temple. As I have gotten older...I am more philosophical on that point, more ambivalent. Redemption, contrition, and the question of where a life falls in the big balance are very complex things. If it is good enough for Yoda and ObiWan, I can live with it...*S*
Shadow posted:I DO think you are still a BIT too easy on Anakin, though... even if I was a BIT too harsh. For me, traits that could perhaps be dismissed in another as minor character flaws are, in Anakin, indicative of deeper and more disturbing fundamenal flaws. What might have seemed like hot-headedness and stubborness at the start of AOTC have led to mass murder, deceit, and greed by the END of AOTC. A lot of blame must be put on Sidious, of course, but like all good tempters, he worked with what was THERE... true, he fed Anakin's ego, catered to his pride, fed his resentments... but those qualities were aleady THERE to BE manipulated, and Anakin succumbed rather readily.
Shawdow-Jedi posted:I guess I see Anakin as more akin to some of the classic "heroes", in the old school sense... that is, a character possessed of SOME good, with the potential for GREAT good, who succumbs to some terrible internal flaws. However, it must be remembered, as you point out... ulimately, SW IS a story about REDEMPTION, about how it is never too late to CHOOSE good, and what a difference that choice can make. Thanks for a thoughtful, interesting response! Shadow
Arawn_Fenn posted:Master_Starwalker posted:Palpatine had shot lightning out of his hands. That's all the proof the Jedi need that he's a Sith. Right... because Force lightning cannot be conjured through the light side.
SHAD0W-JEDI posted: XX ANAKIN XX: I DO think you are still a BIT too easy on Anakin, though... even if I was a BIT too harsh. For me, traits that could perhaps be dismissed in another as minor character flaws are, in Anakin, indicative of deeper and more disturbing fundamenal flaws. What might have seemed like hot-headedness and stubborness at the start of AOTC have led to mass murder, deceit, and greed by the END of AOTC. A lot of blame must be put on Sidious, of course, but like all good tempters, he worked with what was THERE... true, he fed Anakin's ego, catered to his pride, fed his resentments... but those qualities were aleady THERE to BE manipulated, and Anakin succumbed rather readily. I guess I see Anakin as more akin to some of the classic "heroes", in the old school sense... that is, a character possessed of SOME good, with the potential for GREAT good, who succumbs to some terrible internal flaws. However, it must be remembered, as you point out... ulimately, SW IS a story about REDEMPTION, about how it is never too late to CHOOSE good, and what a difference that choice can make. Thanks for a thoughtful, interesting response! Shadow
Icestar63 posted:But in ROTS Obi-wan was not Anakin master anymore so it was not Obi-wan's responsiblity to look after Anakin.
