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Author	Topic: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
Moleman1138 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 6/16/06 7:15pm Subject: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	Due to the success of the PT and OT CBC discussions, I would like to discuss ROTS chapter by chapter on the DVD. There are 47 chapters to discuss over the next eight months, excluding Chapter 1: Opening Logos, Chapter 2: Revenge of the Sith and Chapter 50: End Credits. Each discussion will last 5 days. At the end of 5 days, the following chapter will be posted. Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION: June 15. 2006 – June 19, 2006 DVD TIME INDEX: 112:36 – 114:14 Synopsis: Yoda and Palpatine duel in the Senate chamber. They match each other move by move. Palpatine jumps to higher ground, throwing Senate pods. Yoda dodges them, blocking one of the pods and sending it spinning the Emperor’s way. The Emperor falls to a lower pod, where Yoda meets him with his lightsaber. Palpatine unleashes Force Lighting. Yoda’s lightsaber goes flying, but Yoda retaliates push the Force Lightning back on the Emperor. The Emperor falls and does Yoda, who is holding on to a pod by the claws. He falls to the bottom of the rotunda. His robe is hooked as Palpatine screams. END OF CHAPTER Opinion: This like the Mustafar duel is one where our heroes have the final chance to destroy the Sith. In both cases they fail. This one isn’t as emotional as the Obi-Wan and Vader duel, but still is visually an intriguing companion to work with it. First of all, the Senate is sporting some blues to counteract the hellish red Mustafar, which is an interesting touch. For being the two ends of the spectrum, one would expect all these thousands of moves like the Mustafar duel but we are dealing with two legends who do show their age, but at the same time show their power. I never like Palpatine’s few expressions on the Senate pod, adding more to the caricature, but you can overlook it with the Force Lightning and cackling that brings you back to the true character. Yoda spinning the pod is pretty cool and this is essentially the destruction of the Senate even though it isn’t dissolved for twenty years. Yoda hanging by his claws is a good shot, but is his way of retreat, because Yoda is better than this same with Palpatine in the same type of shot hanging off the pod. I guess it’s good, but I want to get back to the meat of the finale. Good chapter. -----signature----- Host of CBC (Chapter by Chapter) for PT, CT and SFF forums and Box Office Game ROTS-DS Chapter 3: Seeds of Rebellion FOTR Chapter 29: Bilbo's Gifts TSS Chapter 17: Facts and Feathers (8/24/07)
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Moleman1138 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Aug '04	Date Posted: 6/16/06 7:16pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	For those who are just joining us or would like to review past discussions: Chapter 1: Opening Logos (no discussion) Chapter 2: Revenge of the Sith (no discussion) Chapter 3: Battle Over Coruscant Chapter 4: General Grievous Chapter 5: Rescuing the Chancellor Chapter 6: Confronting Grievous Chapter 7: Happy Reunions Chapter 8: Grievous on Utapau Chapter 9: Bad Dreams Chapter 10: Counsel with Yoda Chapter 11: The Chancellor’s Request Chapter 12: On the Jedi Council Chapter 13: Secret Assignment Chapter 14: Not the Chosen One? Chapter 15: Seeds of Distrust Chapter 16: Tragedy of Darth Plagueis Chapter 17: Kashyyyk Chapter 18: Brothers’ Farewell Chapter 19: A Hero Lost Chapter 20: Arrival on Utapau Chapter 21: Obi-Wan vs. Grievous Chapter 22: Jedi War Council Chapter 23: Sidious Revealed Chapter 24: Utapau Chase Chapter 25: Mace Learns the Truth Chapter 26: Anakin’s Fateful Decision Chapter 27: Mace vs. Sidious Chapter 28: Rise, Lord Vader Chapter 29: March on the Jedi Temple Chapter 30: Order Sixty-Six Chapter 31: Time to Leave Chapter 32: “Wait for Me” Chapter 33: The Heroes Regroup Chapter 34: Birth of the Empire Chapter 35: The Terrible Truth Chapter 36: Obi-Wan Confronts Padme Chapter 37: Padme’s Departure Chapter 38: “You’re Breaking My Heart” Chapter 39: Yoda Visits the Emperor Chapter 40: Battle of the Heroes Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious Don't forget we are still discussing LOTR-FOTR and HP-TSS in the SFF Film and Television forum -----signature----- Host of CBC (Chapter by Chapter) for PT, CT and SFF forums and Box Office Game ROTS-DS Chapter 3: Seeds of Rebellion FOTR Chapter 29: Bilbo's Gifts TSS Chapter 17: Facts and Feathers (8/24/07)
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KnightWriter Title: Administrator Emeritus Registered: Nov '01	Date Posted: 6/16/06 7:19pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION - Date Edited: 6/16/06 7:30pm (4 edits total) Edited By: KnightWriter
	This chapter features the single greatest moment in the prequels, and my second favorite of the saga. Yoda's determined deflection of Sidious's lightning never fails to pump me up, and I think it's a powerful show of force for the light side and for good. It's one of only two times in the saga (the other being when he was in Anakin's arms in ROTJ) that Sidious was truly helpless. He was blasting Yoda with everything he had and it still wasn't enough. Yoda couldn't overcome Sidious, but neither could the dark lord overpower his counterpart. Yoda hanging by his claws is a good shot, but is his way of retreat, because Yoda is better than this same with Palpatine in the same type of shot hanging off the pod. I guess it’s good, but I want to get back to the meat of the finale. Good chapter. Yoda vs. Sidious was where my primary interest lay (and still does). When it's over, my interest drops dramatically. I still care, but not as much as I do while watching the titans at work. I wish that the lightning standoff had been filmed somewhat differently, with a wider view of the two combatants, especially so that we could see Yoda gather himself and successfully deflect Sidious's lightning (after being nearly overpowered by it). Instead, we mostly just see their faces. Still, Yoda's expression when he pushes back is tremendous, and it's an incredible achievement in filmmaking. To make a CGI character have such depth of expression is amazing. You think back to ROTJ, when Sidious was hitting Luke with lightning and the young Jedi was unable to stop it. This is a 180 degree turnaround, and you come to understand just how powerful Yoda is when you think about it. In that one sequence, he's doing things that probably no Jedi had done in a millenia, perhaps more. Everything he trained for, everything he learned and came to understand paid off for him. He didn't win, but he was able to get away and eventually sow the seed of his counterpart's destruction (via Luke). -----signature----- "May you live all the days of your life" "There's a special place in Hell for women who don't support other women."--Sarah Palin
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Richard-Drahcir Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 6/16/06 7:29pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	This is a great chapter. It's so good to see just Yoda v Sidious. As much as I love Anakin v Obi-Wan fighting it is great to see just one fight going on. I love the start. Seeing Yoda look up and then we get Sidious hurling Senate pods down at Yoda who does a great job jumping, running and dodging each pod. What's more amazing is how he is able to do this while his lightsaber remains in his hand and how Yoda is able to turn it on. It's just a shame there is no shot of Sidious loosing his lightsaber and escaping to the 'high ground'. Sidious' cackling can get kinda annoying but I like seeing Sidious' expressions of delight. The guy clearly loves the sounds of his own voice too. The bit where Yoda puts his lightsaber away really stands out. He realises that his weapon won't help him and it's nice to see Yoda adopt another way to fight the master of the Sith. Yoda's catch and spin of the Senate pod is damn impressive. It must be so difficult to catch an item like that, stop it and move it back, against the flow of gravity, while spinning so quickly. The reaction from Sidious is brilliant. He stops laughing and realises he'd better get out of the way. The nervous look is pretty sweet too. Yoda's pose when he lands on the Senate pod and has his lightsaber out is brilliant. You know that Yoda means business now, but then comes the lightning. Just like with Mace, it's a last resort again, only Yoda isn't quite as strong as Mace and loses his lightsaber. It's very cool to see Yoda holding off the lightning with his own hands. If Mace can use his lightsaber to do it, Yoda must use his bare hands. It's to be expected. That ball of energy is pretty cool. It's tough to say whether Yoda was gaining the upper hand. Sidious' expressions are somewhat bizzare at the best of times and the seemingly nervous/shocked one he makes here is no exception really. That fall back is pretty impressive. It's just a shame that Yoda fell to Sidious' personal pod while Yoda caught a regular one. It's nice to see Yoda giving it everything to stay on. Similarities between Gandalf's fall in Lord of the Rings were always gonna come up as Gandalf seemed to let himself drop but with Yoda you can see that he was desperate to hold on. The final bit where Yoda looks up and sees his Jedi robes hang off a poll is pretty sad as it gives the impression that Yoda is surrendering, which in a way is true as the fate of the galaxy is surrendered to the Sith. Next chapter is more Anakin vs Obi-Wan. I'm glad those scenes did not clash with this one, and of course the same happens with Yoda vs Sidious as that does not clash with the climax of the Obi-Wan vs Anakin duel later on. It's good to see that each duel ends on its own with nothing clashing with it. -----signature----- You have let this dark lord twist your mind until now. Until now you have become the very thing you swore to destroy. You were the chosen one! You were meant to detroy the Sith not join them. You were my brother Anakin, I loved you.
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Cryogenic Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 6/16/06 8:25pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION - Date Edited: 6/16/06 8:43pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Cryogenic
	A magnificent chapter. This chapter puslates with a furious yet calculated energy; it is both a dizzying spectacle and a richly symbolic work of art. Lucas threw everything he had into this. It's one of the most densely entertaining parts of the entire film. The music, the art direction, the choreography, the sound design... all brilliant. If there are any hiccups, then you might charitably say that Darth Sidious is somewhat caricatured here; the "hand across mouth" moment, where he almost seems to be wiping away drool from intense laughter, is a little much. Yet I can understand why it's this way. Not only is Sidious drunk on power, and taking pleasure from exacting his revenge, but Lucas is able to save his true villainy for Episode VI, thus enhancing the significance of Luke's defiance, and Sidious' own anger, as his "grand design" finally collases under the weight of his own arrogance, and Sidious finally gives into his own "Dark Side". I do have to give a big "thumbs up" for the sound design here. Everything, from the cackling of Sidious, to the crashing of the pods, to the zooming sound made as Yoda's pod comes back at Sidious, to the lightning/thunder effects, to the ball of lightning exploding, to Yoda landing with a thump on the main console, to the sound of his claws cutting into the console, to the sound of him landing and rolling on the floor of the main chamber, is perfect. This is why Ben Burtt exists. The music couldn't be better, either. While the title, "Duel of the Fates", organically fits its original use in TPM best of all ("the Fates" were three Ancient Greek/Roman goddesses that were believed to control human affairs; Qui Gon, Obi Wan and Maul could be considered "gods" fighting for Anakin's soul and the future of the galaxy), Lucas uses it to very dramatic effect here. Considering it was also used briefly in Episode II, this might well be the "signature tune" of the prequels; every time it is heard, it precedes a victory for the Dark Side, which, of course, is ostensibly what the prequel trilogy is all about. Amazing stuff. I'd like to dedicate the second half of my post to focusing on the symbolic qualities of this chapter -- since there are so many of them. Here we go: - Sidious hurling pods at Yoda: Everyone seems to get this one. In Episode II, Sidious offered a commentary on his actions when, as Palpatine, he audaciously declared, "I love democracy, I love the Republic," -- he wasn't lying. One of the thrilling, not to mention shocking, aspects of the PT is the manner in which Sidious assumes control; he uses the tools of democracy to destroy democracy. So it's fitting that, in his inaugural battle with Yoda, he finally gains the upper hand -- the high ground -- by ripping up the senate itself, the very symbol of democracy, in a bid to destroy his little green friend. I also like the demonic look on Sidious' face here and the theatrical way he moves his arms; he's like a conductor gone mad. - Yoda returning the pod: Yoda manages to get off a small victory here by freezing, spinning and returning one of the pods from whence it came. Before he does this, he has has lightsabre out, and he has a moment of clarity, beautifully animated by Rob Coleman and his team, and puts it away, finally trusting in the Force. In Episode V, Yoda tells Luke that "a Jedi uses the Force for knowledge and defence, never for attack," and here, we pretty much see him doing exactly that. The pod itself might also be considered symbolic for the small band of resistance that exists in this time, and will grow, to impressive proportions, in the following installments; indeed, this very pod, from a certain point of view, might be the very pod once occupied by the likes of Padme, Bail Organa and Mon Mothma, as Sidious baptised his Empire, with those staunch egalitarians edged out of the political process, forced to watch from the sidelines. - Yoda disappearing: While Yoda doesn't technically disappear, we see a once-in-the-saga occurence: Sidious actually looks around, concerned and confused, as he momentarily loses sight of his objective. Where is Yoda? This shows how even here, despite the gothic nature of the proceedings, the pendulum is gradually swinging back to the light, and the era of deflection, rebellion and heroism, wrapped in the fabric of invention and "against all odds" fighting, has begun. Then Yoda appears, precariously on the edge of a pod, and Sidious takes immediate advtange, also symbolic of his behaviour throughout the saga. - Yoda losing his sabre: Like with the loss of Mace's sabre, the camera momentarily enshrines this loss, granting it momentary focus and significance. Sidious' apprentice removed the former, and now the master, Sidious himself, removes the latter. The Sith are in control now. - Sidious' lightning: Sidious sends a protacted surge of lightning at Yoda in a bid to destroy him. But Yoda is ready this time. Unfortunately, not even he is "all powerful", and despite his best efforts, he is unable to contain it forever, perhaps choosing to seize the moment, gearing himself to let it go and see what happens. Yoda fights a good fight, but like the Jedi Order itself, he is outclassed and out-Forced. - The explosion: Sidious' lightning, gathered and repulsed by Yoda, finally explodes, knocking both combatants backwards. Now, call it chance, call it fate, call it the way of the Force, but Sidious is sent up, and Yoda is sent down. The good guys have put on a good show, but it wasn't sufficient to stem the tide; the good guys, all throughout the saga, simply weren't good enough; this is a microscopic expression of a macroscopic problem. It's something the survivors of this tragedy are going to have to fix and change in order to eventually triumph. - Yoda clinging to the console: As Yoda falls, he seems to miraculously land back on the central console, where just moments ago, he and Sidious both stood. Can he regain control? Of himself? Of the Republic? Yoda clings, struggles, slips and ultimately fails. His grip on the Republic is nothing compared to Sidious'. Sidious survives by clinging to a pod, from which we can imagine he eventually hauls himself up; symbolic, perhaps, for what he did with Naboo, using a crisis he manufactured (like his manufacturing of the pod-hurling and the lightning) to get elected ("hauled up") into power in the first place. - State of the Senate: Most of the destruction is caused by Sidious; in comparison, all Yoda did was to fling an existing projectile back and scratch his claws into a tiny portion of the central console, merely in a bid to survive. Like the nature of the Sith plot itself, the most visible and extensive damage comes from the Sith, not the Jedi. We can imagine that Sidious used the battered Senate as further "proof" of the Jedi's treachery and lethality. - Yoda falling: "Twice the pride, double the fall". Yoda is cast out of the Senate for the transgressions of the Jedi Order he cultivated and led. This kind of democracy -- no longer any kind of democracy at all -- has no place for the saga's one true zen master. He's going to have to get back in touch with the Force at a basic level. Somewhere where nature is all around... - Yoda loses his cape: The Senate effectively "confiscates" his cape, leaving him shamed and defeated. The old Yoda is no more. The time of the ancient Jedi Order has ended. -----signature----- I have a great admiration for George. These films are very well-intentioned. All right, they make tremendous amounts of money and appeal to kids, but they say good things, and they say them in a broad way. I believe in the Star Wars films. - Ian McDiarmid
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JFuchs77 Registered: Mar '06	Date Posted: 6/16/06 8:32pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	I think that both Palpatine and Yoda should have been dueling in this chapter. But it was nice to hear Duel of the Fates. -----signature----- Palpatine is the Sith lord we've been looking for. After the death of Count Dooku, Anakin became his new apprentice. I'm a Jedi, like my father before me. May the Force be with you. Happy 30th anniversary Star Wars Welcome back Indiana Jones
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GARTH_MAUL Title: Photorealistic LACWAC Manager Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 6/16/06 10:19pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	Such an awesome chapter. What else can I say that hasn't been said? Over-the-top Sidious never bothered me in any part of ROTS. He had been hanging in the background/running the Republic as a "good guy" for so long, now he's letting it all hang out. By the time ROTJ rolls around, he's cool, confident, cocky. Why expend energy on Luke Skywalker? He's defeated the Chosen One, Mace Windu, and Yoda! Anyway, my last comment is that I think the shot of Yoda's cloak falling it very interesting - to me, it has to be intentional. I think it foreshadows the Jedi Ghost phenomenom we see by Kenobi in ANH. In ROTS, Yoda wins (kind of) by running away and not dying. At least he didn't fight until he was dead. In ANH, Kenobi wins by dying - he shows both Luke and Vader that there is always a choice, and there are different paths to power. In ESB, Luke wins (kind of) by running away and not dying. In ROTJ, Luke wins by being willing to die to save his father. -----signature----- Dustin + Tina = Clone Wars discussion is in LACWAC forum!!! The Clone Wars: in theatres August 15th On your TV October 3rd
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HookLineAndSinker Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 6/16/06 10:39pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	I'm glad they cut the part where Sidious loses his saber. It would have made him look pathetic with a saber. Like he has butter fingers or something. Duel of the Fates was nice to hear, though it didn't seem like it was needed. We had BotH now. I really wouldn't have minded some Yoda and Emperor theme stuff but really amped up and worked into the entire track. The Emperor going insane was greatness. I really loved his expressions. The pod throwing was awesome. He looked like he was having a jolly old time. But his expression when Yoda lunges the pod back at him is priceless. The lightning duel was alright. Nice visuals. Though when Yoda fell, they should have shown a real injury to Yoda. Because he basically just stands up and walks away. He should have broken an arm or something. The funniest moment of the movie though was hearing the Emperor laughing insanely off screen, then when it cuts to him, he's dangling like the Joker in Batman trying to hang on. What a nut. -----signature----- Always look on the bright side of life, because the other side is too dark to see.
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lovelucas Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 6/17/06 12:42am Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION - Date Edited: 6/17/06 1:06am (1 edits total) Edited By: lovelucas
	Cryog- - Yoda falling: "Twice the pride, double the fall". Yoda is cast out of the Senate for the transgressions of the Jedi Order he cultivated and led. This kind of democracy -- no longer any kind of democracy at all -- has no place for the saga's one true zen master. He's going to have to get back in touch with the Force at a basic level. Somewhere where nature is all around... - Yoda loses his cape: The Senate effectively "confiscates" his cape, leaving him shamed and defeated. The old Yoda is no more. The time of the ancient Jedi Order has ended. It took me several viewings to get here. I thought I was emotionally punked by that fall of Yoda's and how it must have hurt him..and of course recognizing that all is lost. But Cryog you have put the poetry in the visions. I love metaphors - it's a form of visual storytelling and very George. and this chapter, well this entire movie (and for me all 3 of the prequels), this is why George returned. Those whose expectations can never be met, who denigrate and assess the prequels as not worthy of the saga, the reason to believe is here. Taking the story here - to see the Jedi in their glory (and numbers)only to have everything lost - to see even Yoda defeated and nearly hopeless, and to see this now, after the OT was forever imbedded - it worked George. It so works. and as we're easing into port, finishing up our C by C journey I'm finding myself feeling the same way I do when I'm at this chapter in RotS... regret that it's almost over..... Moleman, I foresee you being inundated by grateful posters. -----signature----- The world will never have lasting peace so long as men reserve for war the finest human qualities. Peace is not just the absence of violence but the manisfestation of human compassion. Yub Yub makes the world go 'round
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qui-gon-kim Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 6/17/06 7:26am Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION - Date Edited: 6/17/06 7:28am (2 edits total) Edited By: qui-gon-kim
	I loved the pod hurling sequence, coupled with Duel of the Fates to give it the epic "good vs evil" feel. Sidious has been slowing destroying democracy the whole PT, and here we see him doing it literally. I wish that the lightning standoff had been filmed somewhat differently, with a wider view of the two combatants, especially so that we could see Yoda gather himself and successfully deflect Sidious's lightning (after being nearly overpowered by it). Instead, we mostly just see their faces. I completely disagree. Lucas' use of extreme closeups perfectly shows the internal and psychic battle between the two opponents. We see Yoda's face as he's reeling from Sids assault, then we see Sids gloating at his apparent victory, the larger face symbolically showing his dominance. Then the camera zooms in on an extreme close up on Yoda's much larger face and eyes as he turns the tables, which then cuts to a smaller closeup of Sids as he's reeling from Yoda's counterattack.
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MatthewZ Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 6/17/06 1:09pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	Seeing the Lightning reflected in Yoda's determined eyes.......priceless. -----signature----- What I posted was true......from a certain point of view.
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dianethx Registered: Mar '02	Date Posted: 6/17/06 2:14pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	Absolutely brilliant chapter. I loved the whole Senate destruction scene with both of them going at it with everything they've got. One little nit - Jedi lose their lightsabers way, way too often. I know that it was a way of saying that Yoda had lost but really. They need a bungee cord on the thing or something! -----signature----- Betrayal - http://boards.theforce.net/s/b1/10935143 updated 9/22/08 Fragments of Illusion- http://boards.theforce.net/bts/b10475/28456473 updated 8/16/08 Freeze frame - http://boards.theforce.net/s/b10476/27820434 Master to jedidas3 Impeach Bush!
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qui-gon-kim Registered: Apr '01	Date Posted: 6/17/06 2:34pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	I'm glad they cut the part where Sidious loses his saber. It would have made him look pathetic with a saber. Like he has butter fingers or something. Who knows, perhaps when Sids drives Yoda to the lower levels he willingly puts his saber away and decides to use the Force instead, to hurl pods at him.
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Cryogenic Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 6/17/06 3:45pm Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	GARTH_MAUL posted: Anyway, my last comment is that I think the shot of Yoda's cloak falling it very interesting - to me, it has to be intentional. I think it foreshadows the Jedi Ghost phenomenom we see by Kenobi in ANH. Interesting remarks. It does have a slightly magical quality about it. Of course, in several other duels, including the one that the Yoda/Sidious duel is juxtaposed with, the duel itself is preceded with the removal of robes. But here, Yoda seems to lose something a little more intimate, and from Sidious' perspective, the remaining cloth suggests an unsolved mystery. HookLineAndSinker posted: The lightning duel was alright. Nice visuals. Though when Yoda fell, they should have shown a real injury to Yoda. Because he basically just stands up and walks away. He should have broken an arm or something. I'm not sure I agree with this. Remember, back in TPM, Obi Wan takes a significant fall, and finds the strength to leap back into the action, apparently unharmed. There is precedent. Further, if Yoda actually sustained an injury and we were shown this, it would detract from the symbolic qualities of Yoda's fall and escape. On the other hand, however, I am sure it would placate those who felt Yoda should have continued fighting, and feel that his retreat was arbitrary and felt like something that the plot demanded. lovelucas posted: It took me several viewings to get here. I thought I was emotionally punked by that fall of Yoda's and how it must have hurt him..and of course recognizing that all is lost. But Cryog you have put the poetry in the visions. I love metaphors - it's a form of visual storytelling and very George. Thanks, lovelucas. One could argue, in fact, that visual storytelling consists of nothing but metaphors. Winston_Sith, in a thread within the "Saga" forum, just pointed out a brilliant metaphor in the framing of Palpatine at the close of TPM: as Yoda says, "Always two there are, no more no less, a master and an apprentice..." and Mace questions, "But which was destroyed? The master? Or the apprentice?", and the camera pans to Palpatine, we are not only being told that Palpatine is the ultimate Sith Lord, but also, by virtue of the arrangement of characters and where they stand in relation to each other, that Obi Wan and Padme literally and metaphorically stand between Palpatine and Anakin; indeed, these are the four central characters of the PT, despite the importance of others like Qui Gon and Yoda, and it is their relationships that will define the remainder of the story, and as that story progresses, Palpatine will move closer to Anakin until Obi Wan and Padme are erased (this visual is then revisited and completed at the close of ROTS: Vader and Sidious are now framed alone, fully transformed, in the final shot of the pair watching the birth of the Death Star). lovelucas posted: and this chapter, well this entire movie (and for me all 3 of the prequels), this is why George returned. Those whose expectations can never be met, who denigrate and assess the prequels as not worthy of the saga, the reason to believe is here. Taking the story here - to see the Jedi in their glory (and numbers)only to have everything lost - to see even Yoda defeated and nearly hopeless, and to see this now, after the OT was forever imbedded - it worked George. It so works. Absolutely. I got into quite the discussion with some chap who felt that Yoda should have watched from the sidelines, always aware of the folly of the Jedi Order, and willing to pick up the pieces in the OT. I didn't like that proposal; it makes Yoda all-knowing, pretty much, and greatly diminishes his human dimensions. qui-gon-kim posted: I wish that the lightning standoff had been filmed somewhat differently, with a wider view of the two combatants, especially so that we could see Yoda gather himself and successfully deflect Sidious's lightning (after being nearly overpowered by it). Instead, we mostly just see their faces. I completely disagree. Lucas' use of extreme closeups perfectly shows the internal and psychic battle between the two opponents. We see Yoda's face as he's reeling from Sids assault, then we see Sids gloating at his apparent victory, the larger face symbolically showing his dominance. Then the camera zooms in on an extreme close up on Yoda's much larger face and eyes as he turns the tables, which then cuts to a smaller closeup of Sids as he's reeling from Yoda's counterattack. Great analysis. Lucas uses extreme wide shots to begin the duel as the pod rises into the cavernous chamber of the Senate, and then, as Yoda and Sidious metaphorically lock horns, he begins using a mixture of medium shots and close-ups. The wide shots set the impersonal stage; the medium shots and close-ups give us a sense of character and enhance the personal struggle of these archetypes, and in doing so, actually enhance the metaphorical struggle between light and dark, too. dianethx posted: One little nit - Jedi lose their lightsabers way, way too often. I know that it was a way of saying that Yoda had lost but really. They need a bungee cord on the thing or something! LOL! I can just picture Sidious blasting Yoda's lightsabre away, it careening into the distance, then recoiling back and hitting Yoda in the head! -----signature----- I have a great admiration for George. These films are very well-intentioned. All right, they make tremendous amounts of money and appeal to kids, but they say good things, and they say them in a broad way. I believe in the Star Wars films. - Ian McDiarmid
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DarthTunick Title: Host: The JCC Weekly Poll Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 6/18/06 1:38am Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION
	It's not often I agree with you KnightWriter, but you're right about this chapter (except for not being as intrested after this scene is done, my intrest is the same throughout both duels). The use of DOTF is brilliant here, especially at the very start of the chapter; it never fails to get to me, no matter how many times I've seen this chapter. I don't think the mannerisms on Palpadious are over done at all, because (and I believe I've made this point before, on a different chapter) he is finally doing what he wants to do (destroying the Jedi, although he obviously doesn't kill Yoda), after planning and waiting so long to do it. His cackling, as he's hanging on for his life after Yoda's deflection of his lightning, always makes me chuckle. Fantastic chapter. -----signature----- September 11th, 2001 -Never forget Viva La Ciudad de Los Angeles! RIP, Cody "Snowball" Reeves, 1978-2008. Let me explain something to you about the Dude...... 2008 NLCS: Dodgers vs. Phillies, Philly leads 2-0
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G-FETT Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 6/18/06 2:55am Subject: RE: ROTS Chapter 41: Yoda vs. Sidious DISCUSSION - Date Edited: 6/18/06 3:39am (2 edits total) Edited By: G-FETT
	Wonderful chapter. We heard back in 1999 that Duel of the Fates would be reprised for the final movie, but I had no idea they would use it so effectively. And honestly, when we first saw The Senate in The Phantom Menace, who would have had any idea that this would be the setting for THE ultimate battle between good and evil? I love that this epic battle between good and evil is conducted in this huge chamber, right at the very center of intergalactic politics - Indeed the concept that The Emperor is trashing democracy itself, as he throws those pods around casually, cannot be lost on the viewer. But what really astounds me where does George get all these ideas from? Who else could have thought of setting this battle at the heart of democracy and all the visual symbols and metaphores that would come from this? He is truely THE visionary storyteller of our generation! But why the hell do the critics refuse to see this? As the chapter begins we find The Emperor throwing pods at Yoda, and Yoda flying gracefully from one pod to another. Duel of the Fates gives the confrontation that grandest feeling to the whole sequence - A true epic! I just LOVE the moment when The Emperor sends a pod flying towards Yoda and Yoda stops it in its tracks and throws it back again! WONDERFUL! Ian Mcdairmid is amazing in these scenes, IMO. I know a lot of people think he was too over the top, but I personally think he plays these scene's just right. This is The Emperor that was saw in 1983. Evil. Insane. Becoming drunk on power. Then quickly we reach the conclussion of the battle. The Emperor and Yoda finish up in the same pod. The Emperor blast's lightning at Yoda, Yoda blocks it and fires it back, at this exact moment Duel of the Fates also reaches it peak, indicating that we have reached a crunch moment in this battle. The energy created by the lightning builds up until it explodes, pushing both Yoda and The Emperor over the edge of the pod. Yoda tries to cling on and then falls to the floor. The battle is over. ILM did an amazing job of depicting Yoda during this whole sequence. I thought the way he was portrayed in the duel with Count Dooku was excellent, but this battle really does take Yoda to the ultimate level of realism. Every single expression and look is 100% believable and realistic. I love the way Yoda's cloak glides down and lands on the floor with him. Theres something so elegant about the way it glides downwards - It reminds me of Obi-Wan's empty cloak after Vader has struck him down.... All in all an amazing chapter. Wonderfully epic and action packed. Fantastic stuff. This is what Star Wars is all about. Star Wars at its very, very best. -----signature----- I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror. Then were suddenly silenced. The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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