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Topic:
Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Yodas_Got_Bed_Head
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
3/26 11:24am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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I think LemmingLord & Rossa83 are on point.
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"...Do or do not, there is no try."
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
3/26 3:03pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Aye.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Dark_Jedi_Kenobi
Title: Manager:
• Prequel Trilogy
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
3/27 1:40pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Rossa83 posted:
I think Lemminglord is onto something. Yoda didn't necessarily know that he was going to overpower Sideous. He already knew, or believed, that Sideous had killed Mace - so he knew he was no slouch. Yoda also knew Anakin and OBW. He knew their respective strengths, and most likely their respective weaknesses. Yoda made a decision on what he thought was most probable. He knew that OBW couldn't take Sideous as Mace was more powerful than OBW - but Yoda was more powerful than Mace, so he had a fair chance. That left OBW to take Anakin. He knew the boy, and he knew his weaknesses, and I believe he knew that if he could survive long enough, Anakin would make a mistake, which he would take advantage of.
I'll echo what LL and Rossa have posted. I don't think Yoda, or Obi-Wan for that matter, was certain of the outcome of their respective actions. After witnessing the carnage at the Temple and possessing the knowledge of Mace's demise, Yoda and Obi-Wan had few options left to explore. Yoda knew that Obi-Wan was not strong enough to take Sidious down and therefore he (Yoda) must be the one to do it. That left Anakin for Obi-Wan to deal with. The argument could be made that Obi-Wan and Yoda together stood a better chance against Sidious that Yoda alone, but I feel that Obi-Wan (being weaker) would have fallen as we saw in the Mace duel. That left going after Anakin as his only option.
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***Host of the PT Trivia Challenge Game 12: Question 10 Posted!*** http://boards.theforce.net/prequel_trilogy/b10669/23314477/p4/?184
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FirBholg
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
3/27 3:36pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
- Date Edited:
3/27 3:38pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
FirBholg
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LordVader66 posted:
I got to thinking, why, exactly, did Obiwan go to Mustafar by himself, prepared to fight Anakin if neccessary?
Short answer: Because Yoda told him to. As to why he thought he could beat Anakin, he didn't. He tells Yoda flat out that he will not be able to kill Anakin. And, of course, he doesn't.
He makes the attempt because he agrees with Yoda that they must curtail the Sith immediately, if they can. In fact, they cannot, for different reasons, and so the strategy changes to what we see in the OT.
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
3/27 4:16pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
- Date Edited:
3/27 4:54pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Rossa83
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Dark_Jedi_Kenobi posted:
I'll echo what LL and Rossa have posted. I don't think Yoda, or Obi-Wan for that matter, was certain of the outcome of their respective actions. After witnessing the carnage at the Temple and possessing the knowledge of Mace's demise, Yoda and Obi-Wan had few options left to explore. Yoda knew that Obi-Wan was not strong enough to take Sidious down and therefore he (Yoda) must be the one to do it. That left Anakin for Obi-Wan to deal with. The argument could be made that Obi-Wan and Yoda together stood a better chance against Sidious that Yoda alone, but I feel that Obi-Wan (being weaker) would have fallen as we saw in the Mace duel. That left going after Anakin as his only option.
Always nice to be agreed with 
Yoda and OBW would stand a better cance than Yoda alone. Have you read White Fang? The young cub, later to be White Fang, was wathching his mother fight a lynx in their cave. His mother was struggling and losing. Then, suddenly, White Fang bites the lynx in one of its hind legs. It doesn't hurt the lynx much, but it distracts it enough for White Fang's mother to seize an opportunity to get a killer blow on the cat. The analogy is flawed, but compared to Yoda and Sideous, OBW was but a cub - but as we see, even a cub can distract an opponnent sufficiently.
But that was never the issue. Yoda decided that they had to move quickly to take out the Sith - surprise them that is - if possible. Both of them could go and take out Vader, and neither would have to break a sweat. OBW could take a cup of coffee watching Yoda overpower him. But, after that was done they wouldn't stand a chance getting remotely close to Sideous, and thus they were nowhere. Trying to take on Sideous could possibly end in a defeat for both Jedi, and thus Anakin would never be challenged by OBW - he would reach his full potential and the Jedi would be no more...
As to OBW: It was a simple question of do or do not. There is no try. His "I cannot kill him" was a testament to his brotherly love. But once OBW had decided to do - then he would do what he had to...
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
3/27 4:45pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
- Date Edited:
3/27 4:50pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
xx_Anakin_xx
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Man, Rossa, your post just made me consider something. What if Yoda and Obi-Wan HAD stuck together. And instead of Obi-Wan, Yoda had confronted Anakin. Now that would have changed things greatly - extraordinarily even. I would even speculate Yoda could have redeemed Anakin on the spot. Then all three could have gone to take Sidious. And I mean even if Yoda didn't think Anakin could be redeemed, he'd discover whether or not that was true when he confronted him - and he wouldn't be prone to emotion when talking like Obi-Wan was. And from Yoda's perspective, worse case scenario, they would kill Anakin and then go on and kill Obi-Wan. Man they really needed me to help with Jedi planning. 
But I disagree with you that Obi-Wan went in there and made up his mind to do what he had to do. He SAID that is what he was going to do, but when it came down to it, Anakin was laying there alive and 3 limbs cauterized, and Obi-Wan DID NOT kill him - he walked away. That was BEFORE Anakin caught fire. Every Jedi knows that limbs are replaceable and that the state he left Anakin in would not stop him from being fixed up and continuing in his dark lord ways. So Obi-Wan failed to do 'what must be done'. The force was guiding Obi-Wan of course, as was the love in his heart, but he couldn't have and wouldn't have killed Anakin.
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"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must"
"You will try"
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AnakinSucks
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
3/28 3:57am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Yoda gave up on "redeeming" darksiders after he failed with Dooku (because of Anakin's presence as it happens).
Yoda would have cut Vader down without a second thought.
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DARTHLINK
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
3/29 10:57am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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AnakinSucks posted:
Yoda gave up on "redeeming" darksiders after he failed with Dooku (because of Anakin's presence as it happens).
Yoda would have cut Vader down without a second thought.
The little salamander (In affection, of course. I am not bashing Yoda) didn't even TRY to "redeem" Dooku.
He just went: "My old Padawan...The Dark Side I sense in you!"
There was no begging or pleading from Yoda, no "Too late, it is not, Dooku!"
So, in a way, it was a good idea that only Obi-Wan went to Mustafar. At least he tried to convince Anakin to come back.
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Wester547
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
3/30 5:42pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
- Date Edited:
3/30 5:45pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Wester547
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Anakin was becoming a rather prodigious applicant of the force with his rather large roof, but Yoda expressly stated that Obi-Wan was only to duel him. He says that Obi-Wan would never be able to combat Sidious, and Palpatine alludes that while Anakin had the capacity to become his equal or greater, that he still wasn't quite on his level. These two solidified statements conclude with Obi-Wan being enough for Anakin but not anyone else above in force proficiency or physically, and that the same mindset applies for Anakin (just that Anakin has far more potential).
In the duel itself, Obi-Wan didn't do much except give Anakin ground to his superiority of power or equal him off for a few seldom moments. It's just that Anakin's overweening nature lead to his defeat - Obi-Wan's cheap cut (I feel the duel should have continued on or had a better ending, but that's for another thread's topic of discussion). Anakin managed to defeat Dooku when tapping into the dark side of the Force with intention, and then grasping said intention. There may have been things holding Anakin back, as convoluted as his state of mind was at the time of his duel with Obi-Wan.
I also don't feel Anakin lost his adept force skill after the PT. If anything, it was ameliorated when he force-choked an Imperial officer from across the galaxy in TESB, showing he was a character only deterred by his suit in conveying his show of power in a metaphorically monstrous way (off-topic, but still). So as to keep on-topic, I'm not sure Obi-Wan thought he could beat Anakin - I'm not sure if he even wanted to (if anything, it was the other way around in relation to the two characters). Vader already defeated Anakin in more figurative train of thought. In my eyes, Obi-Wan's line before they duel encapsulates the matter well enough - "I will do what I must."
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DarthDuckie
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
3/30 9:25pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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I think he thought he could beat him for the reason that he did beat him. Obiwan knew that despite Anakin's prodigious power and ability, there was a very good chance that as long as he could just keep him at bay and stay alive long enough, Anakin's two great weaknesses - his anger and his arrogance - would combine to force him into doing something very stupid, providing Obiwan with the opportunity that he needed to take him down.
And so it was...
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Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand.
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A hero is a person who understands the responsibility
that comes with his freedom.
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
3/30 9:52pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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I still say that Obi-Wan didn't think he could beat Vader. Vader was just stronger in the force and he knew it. I also still believe that when Anakin force choked him in the midst of the duel, he could have killed Obi-Wan. They make a special point of filming a close up of Anakin's face which moves from smug to anguish to tentative determination and that is when Obi-Wan kicks him off. Later, Anakin leaps over Obi-Wan and he doesn't even attempt to slash at Anakin until he lands (on the lava). I thought the film did a great job portraying two people who deep down didn't want to kill one another, but on the surface were determined to do so. When Obi-Wan finally makes his 'higher ground' statement, he is filled with determination - and yet he doesn't slice Anakin in half - he takes off his limbs - then leaves. Obi-Wan couldn't finish the job either, which he told Yoda he couldn't. So I don't think Obi-Wan thought he could beat Anakin on a couple of levels.
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"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must"
"You will try"
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
3/31 9:05am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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If OBW didn't think he could physically kill Anakin, he wouldn't have gone there in the first place. They would have to try something else. OBW wasn't afraid to say he wasn't capable of defeating Dooku - why should he be with Anakin, the Chosen One? when the going gets tough, the tough gets going
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DarthDuckie
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
3/31 11:57am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Strength in the Force is only part of the equation though when it comes to combat. Obiwan surely knew he was no match for Anakin on that level, but he must also have known that he was superior in terms of experience and composure. The most gifted warrior doesn't always win the fight.
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Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand.
-Bodie Theone
A hero is a person who understands the responsibility
that comes with his freedom.
- Bob Dylan
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/1 4:13am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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In the novelization Obi Wan has his own dream when he is knocked unconscious by Dooku at the beginning of ROTS where he has an eyeball with the sith yellow iris.... It twitches and compels him to pluck it out.. The compulsion is so strong because the good and the evil cannot live in such close proximity... Its been shown again and again... Jedi and Sith together = big bad fight. It isn't so much one believes he can kill the other but that he MUST scratch out his own eyes to stop the compulsion, and itch that must be scratched.
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
4/1 5:20am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Not sure I understood that LL
OBW knew he had to stop Anakin, that was all there was to it. He knew how strong Anakin was, but as we saw, OBW was no slouch. They were equal in terms of force push and saber-lock. So, either Lucas messed up making Anakin appear (much) more powerful, or he intended for OBW to be about his equal all things considered, which would tie up with the OT...
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