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Topic:
Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/7 10:53am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Where was this scene mentioned, in a book?
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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MasterAnders
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
4/7 12:35pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
Where was this scene mentioned, in a book?
I don't remember.. It was mentioned in Just the facts, if i'm not remember wrong.
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Hector: Prince of Troy
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TaunTaunHerder
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
4/7 4:11pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Obi- Wan not only believed he could defeat
Anakin, he, in fact, did defeat him.
He knew he may have had to fight Anakin, but he went to confront him anyway.
Ben Kenobi was a man of skill and confidence.
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blankpixels
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/8 9:16pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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I'm sorta curious as to why Anakin can channel the force thru a mechanical hand. But thats a question for another topic...
I hate to draw comparisons to their second battle, but Obi-Wan pretty much gives up that battle both out of the knowledge that it doesnt matter and the wisdom to see the bigger picture. I think that when Obi went to stop Anakin regardless of whether he thought he could destroy him or not, he knew that he was helping the Jedi cause and was selfless enough to fight for what he knew to be right.  And doesn't Obi Wan use the lightsaber form that counters the offensive one Anakin uses? Correct me if I'm wrong.
If you think about it, Obi Wan could have prevented this entire battle by teaching Anakin to use a saber wrong when he started his training (.."No, you hold onto the glowing part! Good, now close your eyes and flail that sucker around! Atta boy!") Would've saved him some time. (Not to be taken seriously ) 
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JEDI-RISING
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/10 8:59am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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I'm curious to mechanical hand thing too.
As to the fight, Obi-Wan didn't have much choice. Did he know he could defeat Darth Maul or General Grievous? It's just what he had to do.
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"Mostly because of my father i guess"
"Ah, father. Powerful Jedi was he ,mmm, powerful Jedi."
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blankpixels
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
4/11 9:39pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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That's a great point, yeah. I guess it all comes down to your duty. He IS a Jedi. Part of the job.
You gotta do what you gotta do.
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Vader_fan
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/12 1:23am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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LordVader66 posted:
Good posts from all.
I guess I just find the conversation between Yoda and Obiwan in the Temple to be a little funny. Yoda just tells Obiwan to find Vader. There is no loss of confidence from the part of Obiwan. There isn't "But Master Yoda, Anakin is more powerful than I, I may need your help to stop him" And Yoda responds with "Master Obiwan, fear Vader do not, know your apprentice well you do, capable of stoping Vader you are" I mean Obiwan's going to face the guy that handed Count Dooku his ass. And Obiwan couldn't stop Dooku if his life depended on it.
I fully agree with you on this. It doesn't make any sense. It's a fact that Anakin/Vader is more powerful and a better swordsman, so why isn't this issue raised during their discussion? Dooku is an even better point. Obi-Wan was soundly/easily defeated by the Count not once but twice, even at the peak of his abilities. Anakin defeated Dooku with relative ease the second time around, so it stands to reason that he would crush Obi-Wan as well.
In my opinion, Lucas was just being inconsistent (as he often is regarding characters' abilities/power) or just careless in how he wrote the dialogue for Yoda and Obi-Wan's discussion. It should have been clear that Obi-Wan is aware of the fact that he's really in for the fight of his life against a more formidable force than himself, but that he also has certain advantages that could even the odds for him. It would also have made more sense for Anakin to dominate most of the duel to illustrate this fact.
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"Don't make me destroy you."--Darth Vader
"Fear. Fear attracts the fearful, the strong, the weak, the innocent, the corrupt."-- Darth Maul
"Good is a point of view."--Palpatine
"You almost got us killed, are you brainless!?"--Qui-Gon
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
4/12 4:19am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Actually they did take ability into account. The trainer said that he carefully mapped out the levels of the various fighters while they trained. The fight with Obi-Wan and Vaderkin was a battle of more than mere lightsabers and a will to win. Remember their last conversation prior to the fight? These two were best buddies and loved each other like brothers. If they had had an all out tremendous war, with Anakin dominating or either one of them ruthlessly shoving the other into the lava (and there were countless opportunities to do so) then we would all be saying 'well they weren't very good friends after all, were they?' So I think Lucas and the trainers/actors did a great job at showing that there was a lot of emotion going on in that battle beyond the mere "I have to kill the Sith" and "I have to kill the Jedi".
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"You will try"
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/12 1:23pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Vader_fan posted:
It doesn't make any sense. It's a fact that Anakin/Vader is more powerful and a better swordsman, so why isn't this issue raised during their discussion?
Because Obi-Wan could beat Anakin. How do I know this? Because he did.
We shouldn't assume that Anakin is much more powerful than Obi-Wan in ROTS. Consider the Force push scene.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Vader_fan
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/12 11:21pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
Vader_fan posted:
It doesn't make any sense. It's a fact that Anakin/Vader is more powerful and a better swordsman, so why isn't this issue raised during their discussion?
Because Obi-Wan could beat Anakin. How do I know this? Because he did.
We shouldn't assume that Anakin is much more powerful than Obi-Wan in ROTS. Consider the Force push scene.
"Could beat" does not mean "likely to beat".
Consider that Anakin was very unfocused (which appears to be Sidious' opinion in Dark Lord; The Rise of Darth Vader, not to mention Gillard and Lucas'), and Obi-Wan was very focused and more experienced. It is not inconceivable that the odds would thus be evened out. As for skill with a lightsaber, it's a fact that Anakin was a better swordsman -- he's a nine, Obi-Wan is an eight. End of story.
The fact remains, Dooku easily defeated Obi-Wan (again) at the peak of his abilities, and Anakin easily defeated Dooku once he focused his rage and power. So, I do not assume, but know that Anakin is significantly more powerful. If he had maintained his focus and patience in his duel with Obi-Wan even half as much as when he fought Dooku, he would have dominated it. Most of it anyway -- not all.
Therefore I maintain that Yoda and Obi-Wan's discussion did not adequately convey just how dangerous it would be for the latter to fight Anakin alone. It has never been an issue of could Obi-Wan defeat Anakin, but rather how likely that is to be the outcome, or just how dangerous such a confrontation could be for Kenobi, as he is facing someone more powerful and skilled than himself.
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"Don't make me destroy you."--Darth Vader
"Fear. Fear attracts the fearful, the strong, the weak, the innocent, the corrupt."-- Darth Maul
"Good is a point of view."--Palpatine
"You almost got us killed, are you brainless!?"--Qui-Gon
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MasterAnders
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
4/13 4:02am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Vader_fan posted:
Arawn_Fenn posted:
Vader_fan posted:
It doesn't make any sense. It's a fact that Anakin/Vader is more powerful and a better swordsman, so why isn't this issue raised during their discussion?
Because Obi-Wan could beat Anakin. How do I know this? Because he did.
We shouldn't assume that Anakin is much more powerful than Obi-Wan in ROTS. Consider the Force push scene.
"Could beat" does not mean "likely to beat".
Consider that Anakin was very unfocused (which appears to be Sidious' opinion in Dark Lord; The Rise of Darth Vader, not to mention Gillard and Lucas'), and Obi-Wan was very focused and more experienced. It is not inconceivable that the odds would thus be evened out. As for skill with a lightsaber, it's a fact that Anakin was a better swordsman -- he's a nine, Obi-Wan is an eight. End of story.
The fact remains, Dooku easily defeated Obi-Wan (again) at the peak of his abilities, and Anakin easily defeated Dooku once he focused his rage and power. So, I do not assume, but know that Anakin is significantly more powerful. If he had maintained his focus and patience in his duel with Obi-Wan even half as much as when he fought Dooku, he would have dominated it. Most of it anyway -- not all.
Therefore I maintain that Yoda and Obi-Wan's discussion did not adequately convey just how dangerous it would be for the latter to fight Anakin alone. It has never been an issue of could Obi-Wan defeat Anakin, but rather how likely that is to be the outcome, or just how dangerous such a confrontation could be for Kenobi, as he is facing someone more powerful and skilled than himself.
Good post!
Anakin is significantly more powerful and a significantly better fighting machine. It was Anakin's emotional state that cost him that victory. But this has been discussed many times before....
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Hector: Prince of Troy
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JEDI-RISING
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/13 9:39am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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GL said "Anakin is more powerful, but Obi-Wan is more experienced."
Remember this too, Obi-Wan trained Anakin, he's more familiar with his dueling, than he was Dooku's. Obi-Wan ends up besting more people than anyone in the series. Maul, Grievous, Vader.
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"Mostly because of my father i guess"
"Ah, father. Powerful Jedi was he ,mmm, powerful Jedi."
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/13 10:14am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
- Date Edited:
4/13 10:19am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Arawn_Fenn
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Vader_fan posted:
As for skill with a lightsaber, it's a fact that Anakin was a better swordsman -- he's a nine, Obi-Wan is an eight. End of story.
I thought Gillard said that the difference between 8 and 9 was simply the dark side. Therefore, a 9 is just an 8 with the dark side.
Vader_fan posted:
The fact remains, Dooku easily defeated Obi-Wan (again) at the peak of his abilities, and Anakin easily defeated Dooku once he focused his rage and power. So, I do not assume, but know that Anakin is significantly more powerful.
Of course, Dooku seems to be the superior swordsman in AOTC. However, Obi-Wan in ROTS was taken out due to an inadequate shield against Dooku's sudden Force grip, which may not be as strong an indicator of relative power as some think.
Vader_fan posted:
Therefore I maintain that Yoda and Obi-Wan's discussion did not adequately convey just how dangerous it would be for the latter to fight Anakin alone. It has never been an issue of could Obi-Wan defeat Anakin, but rather how likely that is to be the outcome, or just how dangerous such a confrontation could be for Kenobi, as he is facing someone more powerful and skilled than himself.
But he's Obi-Wan. He's not thinking like a Muggle. He constantly leaps into dangerous situations.
Vader_fan posted:
It would also have made more sense for Anakin to dominate most of the duel to illustrate this fact.
Uh, hello?
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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MasterAnders
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
4/13 11:42am
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
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Rossa83:
Why do you think your little green friend would beat anakin as he was nothing?
If Yoda had taken obi's place and went to Mustafar, I'm not so sure your little green friend would have returned alive;)
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" I have abided by three laws in my life. Honor the gods, love your woman, and defend your country"
Hector: Prince of Troy
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LordVader66
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
4/13 2:59pm
Subject:
RE: Why did Obiwan think he could beat Anakin?
- Date Edited:
4/13 3:00pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
LordVader66
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
We shouldn't assume that Anakin is much more powerful than Obi-Wan in ROTS. Consider the Force push scene.
This is misinformation. Kenobi and Anakin did not Force push each other, only Obiwan did. Anakin through up a Force block and successfully blocked Kenobi's push. The Force engery blew both back. It's the same thing with the Yoda/Sidious duel. Yoda blocks Palp's lightning and the energy blew both back. That's advantage Yoda. Same with Anakin, advantage Anakin over Kenobi on his Force block. The RotS script allows states Anakin throws up a block, not a push.
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