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Topic:
Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
8/13/07 2:50pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Drac39 posted:
It brought up Robert E. Lee in my opinion.He is regarded as a good man and a great leader even in the North. The sepratists are their own nation now,they aren't going to view the Republic as heroes.
True, but then we see the Sepratist leaders in the film and none of them are depicted as heroes so I'm not sure there's a Robert E. Lee equivalent.
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"Creativity is piercing the mundane to find the marvelous." - Bill Moyers
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
8/13/07 3:30pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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There are always heroes, even if they have dispicable motives. Despite my hatred for the 911 hijackers, I'd never say that they weren't brave. Noble? No. Fearless? Absolutely. And they are heroes to millions. So, like Sidious says, good is a point of view, as is evil.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
8/13/07 3:33pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
- Date Edited:
8/13/07 3:38pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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In reality it is, in Star Wars it's less so. The Light = Good and the Dark = Evil. RotS is an exception to this though with less moral statements by things such as the opening crawl.
However the opening crawl for RotS does make it clear that Grievous and Dooku aren't heroes by calling them fiendish and ruthless respectively.
RotS is somewhat gray when look at as a standalone however when looked at as part of the entire Saga it all becomes clear with even just the opening crawls of the films calling the Empire and Vader evil, the Jedi guardians of peace and justice, and the Rebellion as freedom fighters.
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"Surely you must understand that the means are no less important than the ends." - Luke Skywalker
"Creativity is piercing the mundane to find the marvelous." - Bill Moyers
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
8/13/07 6:59pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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I think there is definately a clear distinction between absolute good and evil in Star Wars, but the prequels show us how easy it is to walk the wrong path, Hell being paved with good intentions and all that.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
8/13/07 7:03pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Oh definitely, which is why I actually think KotOR's game mechanic of a morality meter works fairly well for Star Wars because there's the characters on the extreme ends of the spectrum(Yoda and Palpatine for instance) and those in the middle(Han and Boba.)
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"Creativity is piercing the mundane to find the marvelous." - Bill Moyers
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
8/14/07 12:25pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Master_Starwalker posted:
Oh definitely, which is why I actually think KotOR's game mechanic of a morality meter works fairly well for Star Wars because there's the characters on the extreme ends of the spectrum(Yoda and Palpatine for instance) and those in the middle(Han and Boba.)
And Jolee Bindo. 
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
8/14/07 1:09pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
Master_Starwalker posted:
Oh definitely, which is why I actually think KotOR's game mechanic of a morality meter works fairly well for Star Wars because there's the characters on the extreme ends of the spectrum(Yoda and Palpatine for instance) and those in the middle(Han and Boba.)
And Jolee Bindo.
Nah, Jolee is just in denial.
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"Surely you must understand that the means are no less important than the ends." - Luke Skywalker
"Creativity is piercing the mundane to find the marvelous." - Bill Moyers
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iLoveAnakin7
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
8/14/07 6:39pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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"Good is a point of view..."
Palpatine - RotS
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
8/15/07 7:01pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Yeah, I'm sure Hitler felt quite justified in turning millions of 'subhumans' into air pollution as well 
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
8/15/07 11:04pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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And why not? If you believe in your cause, then you believe it to be just.
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Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
8/16/07 7:50am
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Believing it to be just and it actually being just are not the same thing.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
8/16/07 11:28am
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Oh, I understand that. It just seemed to me that you implied that Hitler didn't believe his cause to be just. I misunderstood.
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Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
8/17/07 9:31am
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
- Date Edited:
8/17/07 9:33am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
SithStarSlayer
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Did anyone really believe that there were heroes on the CIS side of things when they saw the opening crawl?
Did the Seps believe that themselves?
If so, who were their heroes?
Based upon the EU, Dooku did most of his work behind the scenes, so the CIS heroes more than likely would have been Ventress, Durge and Grievous.
Beside the opening crawl of ROTS, the films offer us next to nothing on that front.
***
Also IMO, the opening crawl almost begs that we should check out the eu so that we are more informed.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
8/17/07 11:41am
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Not many people know of the eu or it's importance. No, this refers to Grievous and Dooku. Even if Dooku was more behind the scenes than anything, he was still the leader the CIS against the Jedi/Republic forces. Being a hero does not mean that when you look at them, they are heroes in the traditional sense. They are heroes to their cause and their allies. Anytime Dooku's forces can drive back the Jedi/Republic forces or wipe out a whole platoon of them, the Separatists praised the Confederacy leadership. Both sides had its share of victories and loses.
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Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Dark_Jedi_Kenobi
Title: PT Manager
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
8/17/07 1:01pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Grievous was certainly a hero to the CIS and to a lesser extent Dooku was a CIS hero. Grievous was the public face of the CIS since he commanded the army (as far as the public was concerned, we know that it was Sidious actually pulling the strings) and was therefore a great hero to the CIS cause.
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