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Topic:
Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
8/21/07 2:38pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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SithStarSlayer posted:
Why not?
Its what the U.S. of America does.
Only Forrest Gump can singlehandedly bring down Washington!!!
When I get back I have to photoshop Gump as a Jedi.
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"You can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Wars not make one great." - Yoda
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atataboy
Title: Hoosier Alliance Jedi Council
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
8/21/07 3:30pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Certainly there are many issues on both sides. For the CIS, they were experiencing the fallout of a corrupt government, mired in bureaucracy. The decided to work independently to achieve results for their home worlds. Much of the bureaucratic red tape however, was very likely introduced because of abuses of said government. Then well meaning officials (or seemingly so) enacted new laws to prevent abuses, but increased red tape to near strangling levels. This gave corrupt officials new tools to manipulate the system.
On the flip side, the Republic had spent many years dealing with independent systems. By bringing them all into the same government, it allowed for all system's wishes to be heard in law making. It also allowed for safer conditions for trade, securing peaceful space lanes through previously hostile territory. It also made way to allow the Republic to come against criminals (pirates and the like) who might flee into a different territory to avoid pursuit, were they not under the same government.
Certainly shades of grey. However, there are individuals who can turn anger and suffering into tools which motivate the masses. Palpatine used the fear of war, of insecurity, to push through actions which ultimately led to the destruction of the Jedi Order and the establishment of overt and violent tyranny across the universe. Such individuals are not shades of grey, but dedicated to an evil purpose. Or another way to say evil is an ultimate selfishness that can only be fulfilled by the deaths and servitude of many people.
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
8/21/07 4:19pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Master_Starwalker posted:
When I get back I have to photoshop Gump as a Jedi.
Lucas probably already has just such an image in his library -- ILM won a Best Visual Effects Oscar for Gump!
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“It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.”
~ Joseph Campbell
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
8/21/07 10:35pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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SithStarSlayer posted:
Why not?
Its what the U.S. of America does.
Only Forrest Gump can singlehandedly bring down Washington!!!
BEN: If you choose to face Vader, you will do it alone. I cannot
interfere.
LUKE: I understand. (he moves to his X-wing) Artoo, fire up the
converters.
Artoo whistles a happy reply.
BEN: Luke, don't give in to hate -- that leads to the dark side.
Luke nods and climbs into his ship.
YODA: Strong is Vader. Mind what you have learned. Save you it can.
LUKE: I will. And I'll return. I promise.
Artoo closes the cockpit. Ben and Yoda stand watching as
the roar of the engines and the wind engulf them.
YODA: (sighs) Told you, I did. Reckless is he. Now matters are worse.
BEN: That boy is our last hope.
YODA: (looks up) No. There is another.
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"You can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Wars not make one great." - Yoda
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
8/21/07 10:41pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Master_Starwalker posted:
Yeah, how dare they defend peace and justice. They should let the Corporations that run the CIS do whatever they want.
It's better than kowtowing to a corrupt government that is interfering with private enterprise and inflicting unfair taxes on what is or was free trade. The Republic had abided by free trade for many years and now they're turn on the same people who come to them for supplies and trade. That is how they see the situation.
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Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
8/21/07 10:45pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
- Date Edited:
8/21/07 10:46pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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darth-sinister posted:
Master_Starwalker posted:
Yeah, how dare they defend peace and justice. They should let the Corporations that run the CIS do whatever they want.
It's better than kowtowing to a corrupt government that is interfering with private enterprise and inflicting unfair taxes on what is or was free trade. The Republic had abided by free trade for many years and now they're turn on the same people who come to them for supplies and trade. That is how they see the situation.
Oh, I know that's the CIS view point, but the CIS is guided solely by their own greed. They(at least the Trade Fed, which seems to be one of the more powerful parts of the CIS) also blockaded and entirely innocent and peaceful planet, so they're bound to experience some embargoes. Nute's lucky he didn't get a harsher sentence.
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"You can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Wars not make one great." - Yoda
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
8/21/07 10:52pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Well, when a Sith Lord is keeping your butt outta jail, luck has nothing to do with it. But as it is, the blockade was done in response to the new taxation laws.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
8/21/07 10:57pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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darth-sinister posted:
Well, when a Sith Lord is keeping your butt outta jail, luck has nothing to do with it.
Oh, I know.
darth-sinister posted:
But as it is, the blockade was done in response to the new taxation laws.
Which is an entirely unreasonable response. We don't like the policy so we'll round up innocent civilians into camps and 'process' them!
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"You can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Wars not make one great." - Yoda
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
8/21/07 11:04pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Unreasonable, but functional. The purpose was to get the people of Naboo to sign a treaty, thus advocating their forced removal from the Republic. What happened to the populace was done in an effort to convince Queen Amidala of the seriousness of her fleeing the planet. By resisting, she's damning her people.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
8/22/07 8:32am
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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That's nice, it still makes them evil and thus not heroes.
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"You can't win, but there are alternatives to fighting." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
"Wars not make one great." - Yoda
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Count-Tyranus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
9/1/07 11:53pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Pfftt...CIS haters...
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
9/1/07 11:57pm
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Master_Starwalker posted:
That's nice, it still makes them evil and thus not heroes.
Neither was the US when they rounded up all the Japanese Americans and locked them away, during WWII. Yet many saw the US as the heroes of WWII. Or further back when the US army fought and massacared many Native American Indians, in the 19th century. There were heroes on both sides of that conflict.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Count-Tyranus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
9/2/07 12:01am
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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There is really is very little difference in most wars.
The Republic sucks because of the its tolerance of slavery.
CIS sucks because it allows unbridled captialism.
Who is more wrong?
As for Robert E. Lee, isn't it suspicious that Dooku resembles Americas greatest general?
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
9/2/07 12:05am
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Oy. Again: Thinking you're right and being right are not the same thing. Starwalker's right: the TF was clearly a menace to galactic civilization. They're a business, not a sovereign power unto themselves, and the sole reason they even existed after TPM was because a Sith Lord was in the Chancellorship.
'heroic' and 'functional' do not fit together. 
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Count-Tyranus
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
9/2/07 12:24am
Subject:
RE: Heroes on BOTH sides?
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Utter rubbish. It is easy to see it as a movie goer, however, the denizens of the galaxy would never know the CIS or TF as being so bad...
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