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Topic:
A few questions regarding Palpatine
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Darth Dane
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 5:13am
Subject:
A few questions regarding Palpatine
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Qui-Gon Jinn, says to Anakin's mother that if he had been born in the republic he would have been identified early.
Why wasn't Palpatine identified as a child, didn't he come from Naboo?
When Palpatine is fighting Mace, is he actually losing the fight, or is the fight according to his design, in order for Anakin to come and rescue him?
My guess is that he waited for Anakin, because he says "I'm weak, I'm so weak". And then right
after Anakin blocks Mace, he says "Power. Unlimited power".
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Palp_Faction
Registered:
Feb '02
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 5:30am
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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The answer to the first question is cloaked in mystery. Perhaps he was raised a Sith from an early age, perhaps he was born outside the Republic. Who knows.
Re the fight with Mace, the popular opinion on these boards is that he was losing on purpose. However, I prefer the view that Mace actually beat Palpatine. When Palpatine was saying "You must choose" it reminded me of Jesus in the wilderness being tempted by satan. At that moment in galactic history, Anakin could have helped Mace deliver the fatal blow, or help Palpatine i.e. do what's right for the benefit of all or do what's right for Anakin Skywalker.
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Darth Dane
Registered:
May '00
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 6:18am
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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Palp_Faction posted:
The answer to the first question is cloaked in mystery. Perhaps he was raised a Sith from an early age, perhaps he was born outside the Republic. Who knows.
Well accordig to http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/index.html he can be traced back to Naboo.
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Matthew78
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 7:42am
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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It could be that Palpatine was born in any one of the systems that exist in the Republic and then Darth Plagueis decided to give him a well known homeworld that would appeal to people if an invasion of it ever occured or some such thing, or maybe Palpatine was born on Naboo, even if he wasnt then the Sith could sneak in and create false records and kill anyone who got in their way and leave, Naboo is worthless to Palpatine anyway except for its usefullness as a pawn for him.
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Katana_Geldar
Title: Former CR Tasmania, AU
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 3:08pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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I thought Palpatine erased records about his origins.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 3:10pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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Darth Dane posted:
Palp_Faction posted:
The answer to the first question is cloaked in mystery. Perhaps he was raised a Sith from an early age, perhaps he was born outside the Republic. Who knows.
Well accordig to http://www.starwars.com/databank/character/palpatine/index.html he can be traced back to Naboo.
That doesn't mean he was born on Naboo though, merely that it was his homeworld. The databank says Anakin wasn't born on Tatooine and yet it lists it as his homeworld.
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PerfectCell
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 3:37pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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There are a few options for why Palps was not identified,
1) He was not strong in the Force at birth, his powers and Force potential did not come until farther along in life.
2) He was born outside of the Republic and then settled on Naboo.
3) The Sith discovered him before the Jedi ever had a chance to.
4) He simply wasn't found, he was on Naboo, he was strong in the Force, but the Jedi didn't test him and didn't know about how strong he was, there are Force sensitives that are missed all the time, Palps wouldn't be the first and he wasn't the last.
As for the fight with Mace I interpreted that scene as Mace straight up besting Palps, and Palps fans have never been able to come to grips with that.
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timmoishere
Registered:
Jun '07
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 4:32pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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I believe Palpatine was toying with Mace for the entire fight (after all, he hadn't had a chance to flex his fighting muscles in a long time, so it must have been an enjoyable experience for him). He was most likely prolonging the fight to allow Anakin time to arrive.
The actual moment where Mace knocks the saber out of Palpatine's hand was legit, IMO, but Palpatine was faking being weak afterwards.
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Cryogenic
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 5:01pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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Re: Mace Windu vs Chancellor Palpatine
Palpatine's final stance when Anakin arrives, half standing, half sitting, suggests it's half and half. When Palpatine sits, he's normally passive and in control; when he stands, he's normally active and vulnerable. A careful view of the films supports this interpretation.
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I have a great admiration for George. These films are very well-intentioned. All right, they make tremendous amounts of money and appeal to kids, but they say good things, and they say them in a broad way. I believe in the Star Wars films.
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 5:41pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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Astute observation Cryo, I am very much intune with this line of thinking.
I-McD's posture was a perfect reflection of his OT performance and makes him even more smarmy. I hope that more will be revealed about Palpatine and PLAGUEIS in the upcoming Jedi vs Sith : the essential guide to the Force. The Official Site summary states:
"Learn the history of the Jedi and their enemies—from the most ancient battles of light versus darkness chronicled within the recesses of long-lost Holocrons to more contemporary conflagrations recounted by heroes such as Obi-Wan Kenobi and Leia Organa Solo.
Discover the myriad ways to contemplate and use the Force, wield a lightsaber through different forms of combat, and for the truly brave, tread the path of the dark side and study the secrets of the Sith."
And the list of Force Sensitive character's are:
Adas
Sar Agorn
Bodo Baas
Darth Bane
Zayne Carrick
Sigel Dare
Antares Draco
Kyp Durron
Roan Fel
Guri
Qui-Gon Jinn
Kaan
Darth Krayt
Ludo Kressh
Lumiya
Darth Malak
Onimi
Leia Organa Solo
Darth Plagueis
Palpatine
Marka Ragnos
Revan
Darth Ruin
Naga Sadow
Anakin Skywalker
Luke Skywalker
Shmi Skywalker
Jacen Solo
Jaina Solo
Streen
Darth Talon
Raana Tey
Mace Windu
Xendor
Yoda
I will be extremely put-out if no new info is revealed, especially for the Bolded ones.
I'm not buying it for the new fancy pictures, I want teh background info.
If we get shafted with their OS-bios and nothing more? Then the Basher's Sanctuary will need to be revived...
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 6:46pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
- Date Edited:
11/22/07 6:48pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
lovelucas
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force sensitivity? I wonder if dark side sensitivity is self-defined and self-preserved by cloaking that sensitivity. The Jedi had no idea the Sith were always there...in the fermenting stage just waiting until the time was right.
and the entire Mace vs Palaptine scenario could be and has been discussed at length but nothing I've read has dissuaded me from my opinion that Palps rolled the dice regarding timing - sandbagging (but surprised) in his duel with Mace. Awaiting the arrival of Anakin to tip the balance and commit to his cause. I don't find it at all comforting that I find admiration for Palpatine (with Ian - my admiration is staggering) - but how can you not? His patience and plotting for decades and his knowing his opponents and his stooges (all their weaknesses, all their vanities awaiting his manipulation).. all those strengths yet he put everything on the line betting that his Ace - Anakin - would arrive and perform almost as he had programmed.
The tragedy is Anakin was operating from love of Padme - while Palpatine was always focused on the prize of ultimate power.
The sheep to the slaughter they all were.
No wonder I love Lucas.
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Cryogenic
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 7:42pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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Thanks, Sx3. I'm not an EU fan myself, but if a job's worth doing, then it's worth doing right.
For Anakin, power is a means to an end. For Palpatine, power *is* the end. That's what gives Vader his humanity and denies Sidious of his. In effect, Palpation / Sidious is a living embodiment of power -- that's why Anakin "needs" him. Very strong archetypes there. SW does 'em best. And Ian has got to be one of the most underrated actors in the world.
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I have a great admiration for George. These films are very well-intentioned. All right, they make tremendous amounts of money and appeal to kids, but they say good things, and they say them in a broad way. I believe in the Star Wars films.
- Ian McDiarmid
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 8:09pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
- Date Edited:
11/22/07 8:10pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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SithStarSlayer posted:
I will be extremely put-out if no new info is revealed, especially for the Bolded ones.
I'm not buying it for the new fancy pictures, I want teh background info.
If we get shafted with their OS-bios and nothing more? Then the Basher's Sanctuary will need to be revived...
I believe chiss_man in Lit who got the book early said there wasn't much new about Plagueis but I could be wrong.
Cryogenic posted:
Thanks, Sx3. I'm not an EU fan myself, but if a job's worth doing, then it's worth doing right.
For Anakin, power is a means to an end. For Palpatine, power *is* the end. That's what gives Vader his humanity and denies Sidious of his. In effect, Palpation / Sidious is a living embodiment of power -- that's why Anakin "needs" him. Very strong archetypes there. SW does 'em best. And Ian has got to be one of the most underrated actors in the world.
Exactly.
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"Surely you must understand that the means are no less important than the ends." - Luke Skywalker
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PerfectCell
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 8:23pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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SithStarSlayer posted:
Astute observation Cryo, I am very much intune with this line of thinking.
I-McD's posture was a perfect reflection of his OT performance and makes him even more smarmy. I hope that more will be revealed about Palpatine and PLAGUEIS in the upcoming Jedi vs Sith : the essential guide to the Force. The Official Site summary states:
"Learn the history of the Jedi and their enemies—from the most ancient battles of light versus darkness chronicled within the recesses of long-lost Holocrons to more contemporary conflagrations recounted by heroes such as Obi-Wan Kenobi and Leia Organa Solo.
Discover the myriad ways to contemplate and use the Force, wield a lightsaber through different forms of combat, and for the truly brave, tread the path of the dark side and study the secrets of the Sith."
And the list of Force Sensitive character's are:
Adas
Sar Agorn
Bodo Baas
Darth Bane
Zayne Carrick
Sigel Dare
Antares Draco
Kyp Durron
Roan Fel
Guri
Qui-Gon Jinn
Kaan
Darth Krayt
Ludo Kressh
Lumiya
Darth Malak
Onimi
Leia Organa Solo
Darth Plagueis
Palpatine
Marka Ragnos
Revan
Darth Ruin
Naga Sadow
Anakin Skywalker
Luke Skywalker
Shmi Skywalker
Jacen Solo
Jaina Solo
Streen
Darth Talon
Raana Tey
Mace Windu
Xendor
Yoda
I will be extremely put-out if no new info is revealed, especially for the Bolded ones.
I'm not buying it for the new fancy pictures, I want teh background info.
If we get shafted with their OS-bios and nothing more? Then the Basher's Sanctuary will need to be revived...
There's not much in the book as far as character bios or anything. Basically the book is a SW philosophy book, it gives various theories on the Force and anecdotes from certain characters are give and certain characters share their theories on the Force. It's really a great book, but I've only leafed through it so far so maybe they do give some bios, but to be honest I love it already even without the bios, SW philosophy where so many different Force theories are offered is the greatness.
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"When you have reached the end of the road then you can decide whether to go to the left or the right, to fire or to water. If you make those decisions before you have even set foot upon the road it will take you nowhere." - Galen
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 8:31pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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Agreed, I also like that it's all presented by the different characters so while it presents concepts like the Potentium being a Sith attempt to undermine the Jedi orthodoxy, those things are left with a significant amount of doubt since it's just a character's opinion.
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LordVader66
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
11/22/07 8:43pm
Subject:
RE: A few questions regarding Palpatine
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Darth Bane posted:
Qui-Gon Jinn, says to Anakin's mother that if he had been born in the republic he would have been identified early.
Why wasn't Palpatine identified as a child, didn't he come from Naboo?
We don't know for sure yet, Palpatine's back story hasn't been released yet. But, since Palpatine was from Naboo and wasn't found by the Jedi, something must have happened.
Such as:
1. His parents didn't want the Jedi to train him
2. Plagueis impersonated a Jedi
Personally, I would find the idea of Plagueis impersonating a Jedi were cool. But others on these boards believe that Palpatine only trained in the ways of the Force when he was much older, remember, Palpatine was a life long politician. His life was well documented, it would be difficult to explain where he was if he had been taken as a child by the Sith for training.
Darth Bane posted:
When Palpatine is fighting Mace, is he actually losing the fight, or is the fight according to his design, in order for Anakin to come and rescue him?
My guess is that he waited for Anakin, because he says "I'm weak, I'm so weak". And then right
after Anakin blocks Mace, he says "Power. Unlimited power".
I'm really fighting the urge not to touch this one. But I can't help myself. I should tell you that this is a very controversial topic and there is a very long thread dealing with the topic.
Many believe Lucas settled it in his RotS commentary, when he says "This is where Mace, uh, overpowers the Chancellor". To me it's a bit ambigous because he doesn't really say anything. He doesn't say, "this is where Mace legitmately overpowers Chancellor Palpatine". Instead he just tells us what we are seeing. We don't know how he's doing it. But, on the other hand, we don't hear Lucas say, "This is where Palpatine sets up Mace and lets himself be disarmed". What is a fact is that Palpatine of course does pretend to lose his powers. But, for me, personally, the Mace/Sidious duel isn't completely straightened out. Take these reasons why I believe Sidious set up Mace.
1. Palpatine destroyed the other Jedi in seconds. Some of the best swordsmen of the Order, went down looking like they had nothing on Palpatine.
2. Palpatine duels Mace and then has him beat, when he is pointing the blade straight at Mace's chest. He allows Mace to lock sabers with him and continue the duel.
3. Palpatine needs Anakin to cross the line of no return. Having him cut off Mace's hand is a good start. As Anakin runs into the office, Palpatine is just then disarmed. He then forces Anakin right then and there to chose between the Jedi and Sith.
4. The RotS novel, which Lucas himself read, to make sure he agreed with everything in it, clearly shows Palpatine setting up Mace.
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