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Topic:
*OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
11/26/07 1:12pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
- Date Edited:
11/26/07 1:15pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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You're acting like Obi-Wan surviving because of the OT delegitimizes that he beat Darth Maul. That's like me saying "Oh, the Sith only beat the Jedi because of the OT and thus it's not legitimate." Obi-Wan legitmately outfought, out thought, and defeated Maul just like Palpatine did to the Jedi Order.
Obi-Wan also was strong enough when he drew on the Dark Side to take Maul off balance and cut his saber in two. The gulf between their skill levels is no where near as large as you make it seem.
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"When we do appear we can be killers, but we can also be healers. Thank the Force for that." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Icestar63
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
11/26/07 1:47pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
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SithStarSlayer posted:
Kenobi got lucky with two shots, one for the saber hilt, and then second when he knocked Maul down. Maul proved to be Kenobi's superior in combat, not the other way around. Even when was empowered by his dark-emotions he couldn't best Maul. That little thing that Kenobi held onto was called an OT-life-saver. Maul only died because he had to... for the story's sake.
Nothing more.
Nothing less.
How did Obi-wan get lucky when he cut Mauls lightsaber in half and knocked him down? 
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
11/26/07 1:57pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
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Probably because Maul beat Obi-Wan like a red-headed stepchild for the entire duel, and didn't even pay attention to him until Qui-Gon was out of the way. Obi-Wan, even after cutting Maul's saber, was still losing the duel, and would have definately lost had he not had time to cool down and focus. He was in no way as good a fighter as Darth Maul.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
11/26/07 2:03pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
- Date Edited:
11/26/07 2:03pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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Yet at the end of the day Maul's bisected and Obi-Wan walks away. It was Darth Maul's arrogance and stupidity that cost him the duel, two things that completely undermined his skill as a warrior.
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"When we do appear we can be killers, but we can also be healers. Thank the Force for that." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
11/26/07 3:08pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
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Darth Vader bisected Obi-Wan, does that mean that Obi-Wan was inferior to Darth Vader? ROTS shows otherwise.
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
11/26/07 3:55pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
- Date Edited:
11/27/07 9:51am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Strilo
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sith_rising posted:
Probably because Maul beat Obi-Wan like a red-headed stepchild for the entire duel, and didn't even pay attention to him until Qui-Gon was out of the way. Obi-Wan, even after cutting Maul's saber, was still losing the duel, and would have definately lost had he not had time to cool down and focus. He was in no way as good a fighter as Darth Maul.
I have studied the end of TPM ad-nauseum, and I laugh at some of the things posted here.
The finished-film contains some rather blatant editing mistakes, and in my book they are what delegitimizes Kenobi's victory. Lucas put very little thought into getting Kenobi out of that pit, if this weren't true, the editing wouldn't have been soo Strilo edit: Don't circumvent the swearing rules.
Mistake numero uno: Maul force pushes Kenobi with two different hands.
Mistake dos: Kenobi took 17 seconds to call upon the Force. No Jedi, or no Sith for that matter ever took that long before, or after to summon the Force. Watch Kenobi throw his hand at Vader on Mustafar, how long was that? A half a second?
Mistake numero tres:When Maul is staring at Kenobi he has saber in one hand. But when he turns around as Kenobi leaps, the saber mysteriously ends up in his other hand, so that he CAN'T block Kenobi's strike. <-- that move right there is what makes Kenobi's survival even more contrived, or as I call it: because of the OT.
Ray Park couldn't help but be in the right spot, and even held his weapon correctly, so they had to edit it... just to get him cut in half. The sequence of events surrounding Maul's death were specifically altered to enable Kenobi's leap from the pit.
Kenobi didn't kill Darth Maul....
Lucas did.
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Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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EECHUUTA
Registered:
Mar '07
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Date Posted:
11/26/07 4:41pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
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You make a good point. Maybe instead of having that podrace, we ought to have an extended battle between Obi-Wan and Maul. It would be neat to watch them kick the tar out of each other for a little longer. We could see how dangerous the Sith were, and how lethal Maul really was, because Lucas wouldn't be under as bad a time contraint for the battle. And Obi-Wan would look very good instead of appearing like he bested Maul in a cheap shot.
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Icestar63
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
11/26/07 6:36pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
- Date Edited:
11/26/07 6:39pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Icestar63
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In my opinion, it was not "luck" that Obi-wan was beating Maul before he force pushed him to that pit. He used his anger then when Maul saw an opening, he pushed him to that pit, but that opening was there because when Obi-wan used his anger he lost his focus. It was not "luck that Obi-wan used his anger to dominate that part of the duel. This is my opinion.
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Amrita_Glittersong
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
11/26/07 6:40pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
- Date Edited:
11/26/07 6:41pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Amrita_Glittersong
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I think that Maul was indeed the better technical fighter, but that shouldn't discount what seems to be Obi-Wan's greatest asset in a lightsabre duel: his ingenuity. Obi-Wan consistantly, throughout the movies and EU, comes up with unexpected or unorthodox ways to even out or turn the tide of a fight to his favor. The fight with Maul is a good example of this; though Maul out-fought Obi-Wan, Obi-Wan out-thought him.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
11/26/07 7:39pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
- Date Edited:
11/27/07 9:52am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Strilo
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sith_rising posted:
Darth Vader bisected Obi-Wan, does that mean that Obi-Wan was inferior to Darth Vader? ROTS shows otherwise.
Ben is shown willfully allowing himself to be struck down while Maul was simply killed.
SithStarSlayer posted:
sith_rising posted:
Probably because Maul beat Obi-Wan like a red-headed stepchild for the entire duel, and didn't even pay attention to him until Qui-Gon was out of the way. Obi-Wan, even after cutting Maul's saber, was still losing the duel, and would have definately lost had he not had time to cool down and focus. He was in no way as good a fighter as Darth Maul.
I have studied the end of TPM ad-nauseum, and I laugh at some of the things posted here.
The finished-film contains some rather blatant editing mistakes, and in my book they are what delegitimizes Kenobi's victory. Lucas put very little thought into getting Kenobi out of that pit, if this weren't true, the editing wouldn't have been soo .
Mistake numero uno: Maul force pushes Kenobi with two different hands.
Mistake dos: Kenobi took 17 seconds to call upon the Force. No Jedi, or no Sith for that matter ever took that long before, or after to summon the Force. Watch Kenobi throw his hand at Vader on Mustafar, how long was that? A half a second?
Mistake numero tres:When Maul is staring at Kenobi he has saber in one hand. But when he turns around as Kenobi leaps, the saber mysteriously ends up in his other hand, so that he CAN'T block Kenobi's strike. <-- that move right there is what makes Kenobi's survival even more contrived, or as I call it: because of the OT.
Ray Park couldn't help but be in the right spot, and even held his weapon correctly, so they had to edit it... just to get him cut in half. The sequence of events surrounding Maul's death were specifically altered to enable Kenobi's leap from the pit.
Kenobi didn't kill Darth Maul....
Lucas did.
Editing mistakes are irrelevant to the plot. Maul died for the same reason Dooku, Mace, Ben, Yoda, Dack, Padme, Anakin, Palpatine, random stormtrooper, and everyone else who dies in the film did. The script required it. The constant attempts to make Maul's death seem any less legitmate than any other death is simply ludicrous given that we're talking about a piece of fiction where everything that happens happens because of the plot, which means every event in the PT happens because of the OT.
Lucas killed everyone.
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"When we do appear we can be killers, but we can also be healers. Thank the Force for that." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
11/27/07 9:08am
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
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The editing does matter.
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Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
11/27/07 6:58pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
- Date Edited:
11/27/07 6:59pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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Things like a saber ending up in the wrong hand don't matter to the plot.
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
11/27/07 7:29pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
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What matters is that Maul has been brutalized like a clawless cat against two pit bulls in the new esential guide to the force. Although Palpatine is the narrator...
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Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
11/27/07 8:53pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
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I hate the EU and will probably regret this, but what does it say?
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
11/28/07 4:49am
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan vs Darth Maul
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I will post the entire passage on thursday nite in the Should Darth Maul have died thread.
I didn't hate the EU before, but I ain't likin it too much right now...
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Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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