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Author	Topic: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 4/23 11:35am Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	Anakin didn't love Mace as he did Obi-Wan so there would be no reason for him to get over-emotional and over-arrogant. If his sole purpose was to take Mace out; Mace would go down, imo. -----signature----- "Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must" "You will try"
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r8hitman Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 4/23 11:47am Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	darth-sinister posted: While Mace Windu is a strong, skilled and experienced Jedi Master, he is still going up against someone who is stronger and filled with a greater reserve or anger than he has. Anakin could very well beat Mace in a straight up battle, so long as he does not make the same mistakes that he did against Obi-wan. Namely getting so mad and overconfident that he makes a mistake which Mace can then take advantage of. That is the only reason Anakin ever lost the duel on Mustafar and it would be his downfall against Mace, unless he had better control. But that's my point, he DOESNT have better control. And his anger and frustration at Mace would be twice as bad as it was against Obi-Wan, and as you put it, it would be his downfall. "When last we met, I was but the learner, now I am the master" "Only a master of evil Darth" See he wasnt a 'master' at the time of ROTS, he was only a novice when it comes to the darkside and he would be in seriously trouble against Mace. He would have a better chance as a jedi, but even then he's not on Mace's level just yet so it's the same result. Like I said the only way for Anakin to win (at this point in the saga) is if Mace steps out of character and becomes evil, and that's not likely to happen. -----signature----- -you want answers? -I think I'm entitled. -You want answers? -I want the truth!! -YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH!! http://boards.outerrimsieges.com/
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MasterAnders Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 4/23 12:31pm Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	darth-sinister posted: While Mace Windu is a strong, skilled and experienced Jedi Master, he is still going up against someone who is stronger and filled with a greater reserve or anger than he has. Anakin could very well beat Mace in a straight up battle, so long as he does not make the same mistakes that he did against Obi-wan. Namely getting so mad and overconfident that he makes a mistake which Mace can then take advantage of. That is the only reason Anakin ever lost the duel on Mustafar and it would be his downfall against Mace, unless he had better control. Exactly! And Anakin would problably not get emotional against Mace. The ROTS videogame is a good example of how it would have turned out.. -----signature----- " I have abided by three laws in my life. Honor the gods, love your woman, and defend your country" Hector: Prince of Troy
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RedPigeon Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 4/23 12:54pm Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	I don't care about the crappy Rots video game...Mace would woop Anakin's emo-boy booty!!! -----signature----- Your mom goes to college Hey um my name is Fred Fredburger, I can spell my name real good The spoon is to big! Imaturity is bliss
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MasterAnders Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 4/23 1:04pm Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	r8hitman posted: darth-sinister posted: While Mace Windu is a strong, skilled and experienced Jedi Master, he is still going up against someone who is stronger and filled with a greater reserve or anger than he has. Anakin could very well beat Mace in a straight up battle, so long as he does not make the same mistakes that he did against Obi-wan. Namely getting so mad and overconfident that he makes a mistake which Mace can then take advantage of. That is the only reason Anakin ever lost the duel on Mustafar and it would be his downfall against Mace, unless he had better control. But that's my point, he DOESNT have better control. And his anger and frustration at Mace would be twice as bad as it was against Obi-Wan, and as you put it, it would be his downfall. "When last we met, I was but the learner, now I am the master" "Only a master of evil Darth" See he wasnt a 'master' at the time of ROTS, he was only a novice when it comes to the darkside and he would be in seriously trouble against Mace. He would have a better chance as a jedi, but even then he's not on Mace's level just yet so it's the same result. Like I said the only way for Anakin to win (at this point in the saga) is if Mace steps out of character and becomes evil, and that's not likely to happen. He seems to have more than enough control to own dooku. But you never know... The best dosen't always win -----signature----- " I have abided by three laws in my life. Honor the gods, love your woman, and defend your country" Hector: Prince of Troy
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Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/23 1:25pm Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu? - Date Edited: 4/23 1:29pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Darth_Davi
	Pre-suited Darth Vader could defeat Mace Windu. Mace Windu could defeat pre-suited Darth Vader. Mace is an exceptional duelist. So is Anakin. Mace has more experience than Anakin, but Anakin has more potential, and youth on his side. If Anakin were Kenobi's age during ROTS, with more experience under his belt, Mace would have been no match for him. Nobody would have. Not Mace, not Yoda, not Kenobi, not Palpatine. Physically, Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader was Mace's superior. Mace might win because of his experience, exploiting Anakin's inexperience. Mace's advantage might give him the edge. But, Anakin's sheer physical prowess might give him the edge...At the time of ROTS, with Anakin only being 22 years old, Mace's edge could be enough. Wait a few years longer, and that edge, if it is truly an edge, disappears. In AOTC, the comparison is between Anakin and Yoda, not Anakin and Windu. So, at their ages in ROTS, I think a duel between them would be a push. It could go either way. A little while longer, and a healthy Anakin Skywalker/Darth Vader would have become largely invincible in a lightsaber duel. Kenobi got lucky he faced Anakin when he did as well. If Anakin had been a few years older, a few years more experienced, Kenobi would not have been able to defeat him, despite knowing all of his tricks. Kenobi managed to exploit the inexperience of Anakin, because he knows Anakin's fighting style intimately well. Perhaps Mace can do the same. But, perhaps not. Mace against a 22 year old Anakin, possible. Mace against a 30-35 year old Anakin Skywalker? Not a chance in hell. In ROTS, Anakin was still approaching his prime, but not there yet. Once he reaches his full potential, he is simply better than anyone else. -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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MasterAnders Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 4/23 1:57pm Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	Good post darth-javi Anakin has the physical advantage, more strength and stamina. he also have better connection with the force and have greater power reserves. And with the experience he gained in the clone wars and fighting against dooku twice, is also an advantage. So i bet Mace would die a painful and brutal death.. -----signature----- " I have abided by three laws in my life. Honor the gods, love your woman, and defend your country" Hector: Prince of Troy
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Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 4/23 3:19pm Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	Mace has far more experience. And I doubt Anakin has much of an advantage in terms of strength/stamina. -----signature----- The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach "I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude." - Kirk Lazarus
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Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/23 4:10pm Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	Physiologically, Anakin does have a clear advantage. The reflexes of a 22 year old are far superior to those of a 50 something year old. The reason teens get into more car accidents than any other group is their lack of experience, not reaction times. Its why Qui-Gon Jinn has to rest in TPM, while Maul just glares at him. Like it or not, even Jedi eventually succumb to aging. Mace Windu was a brilliant duelist. However, he was not a young man anymore. His only advantage over Anakin is his experience. Sorry, but physically, there is no way that Mace Windu could keep up with Anakin over the long haul. Athletics is for the young, not the old. Mace does have more experience. Like I said before, if we take them at their ROTS ages, its a push. Where Mace's strengths are, Anakin is weak, where Anakin's strengths are, Mace is weak. However, age Anakin a few more years, and his weaknesses lessen, and his strength increases. A few more years would push Anakin over the edge to the point where Mace Windu simply couldn't keep up anymore. -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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Dark_Jedi_Kenobi Title: Manager: • SFF Films & TV • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 4/23 5:04pm Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	Let's stop with the little shots at each other in here and keep things respectful. Everyone's allowed to have an opinion and just because they don't share your opinion, that doesn't make them wrong. -----signature----- *Host of the PT Trivia Challenge Game 12: Question 10 Posted!* http://boards.theforce.net/prequel_trilogy/b10669/23314477/p4/?184
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Eternity85 Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 4/24 4:45am Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	IMO age has nothing to do with it. Look at Sidious, Dooku and Yoda. When it comes to the force, i dont think it matters if you are 20 or 50 years old. Yoda walks with a cane, because he is old, but when he goes to battle, he jumps around like crazy, because then he uses the force. -----signature----- Live life as if your were to die tomorrow. Learn as if you were to live forever. - Gandhi
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Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/24 8:37am Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	If age weren't an issue at all, (not saying its everything, just that it is a factor) why does Qui-Gon Jinn need to rest on Naboo, during the duel with Maul? He is obviously winded, while Maul is not. Then the question becomes, would Qui-Gon Jinn be winded if instead of being in his 50s, was instead say, 28, in the prime of his life? By the same token, if you had two Mace Windus, with both containing the exact same experience, but one is late 20s, the other is in his 60s, which one wins in a duel? Assuming same experience, same Force ability, everything being equal but their ages and the effects their age has had on their bodies...There is a reason that high performance athletes, despite the most intense physical training, slow down. NFL running backs rarely can stay on top after turning 30. There are exceptions, but most cannot maintain the speed they had earlier. Michael Jordan, the best basketball player the world has ever seen, would probably no longer be able to make the roster of an NBA team now. His skills, with the increase in his age, have atrophied. Mace Windu, at age 65, is simply not going to be the same duelist he was at age 25. During ROTS, I am willing to give Windu's experience as much weight as I would Anakin's physical superiority. Anakin is physically stronger than Windu, has more Force potential than Windu, but lacks Windu's experience. Basically, at their current ages in ROTS, each's strengths and weaknesses probably offset each other, so either could legitimately beat the other. However, a few years later, Anakin's weakness of inexperience would lessen, and he would be even more able to use his potential to its fullest, which would push him over the edge, making him a clear favorite in a duel. Age does matter, to some extent. As Count Dooku shows, its not the only thing, obviously...by tapping into the Dark side, he was able to defeat Kenobi as a Jedi Knight, and Skywalker, as an inexperienced Padawan in AOTC. He was still physically in shape, and was still capable of showing the younger generations a thing or two. But, between AOTC and ROTS, according to Anakin, Anakin has grown twice as strong since the last time they met...Anakin's power was increasing. Dooku owned him when he was 18, just wiped the mat with him. Toyed with him, even. Fast Forward 4 years, with Anakin tapping into the same Dark powers Dooku is, and its no contest. Once Anakin uses the Dark side, it is Anakin that toys with Dooku. Anakin got stronger, much stronger, which allowed him to overcome the obvious advantage Dooku had in experience. Maybe he got strong enough to offset the same experiential advantage Windu would have, maybe not. It is certain that in a few more years, he would have. For the Chosen One, it could not be any other way. If Anakin was the Chosen One, and he was, allowed to reach his potential, he would have been untouchable. -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 4/24 9:45am Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	In early script treatments for Star Wars, age was definitely a factor. This sentiment survived through to the final version of the film in the line: "Your powers are weak, old man." Of course now there are different explanations for that line. -----signature----- The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach "I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude." - Kirk Lazarus
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Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 4/24 1:08pm Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu?
	I thought about including that line in my posts, but ultimately felt I didn't really need it to get my point across. Shoot, look at the differences between ROTS and TESB. If age didn't matter at all, Yoda wouldn't have struggled to raise the X-Wing, when only 20 something years ago, he not only could catch a Senate pod, but then give it spin, and shoot it back towards Palpatine, in a combat situation. Even the difference between being 880 years old and 900 years old (roughly) affected his power. If age made no difference, Yoda should have been able to easily raise the X-Wing from the swamps on Dagobah, based on what we see him do in ROTS. Yet, he struggles with it. In the PT, Yoda walks around with a cane, much like he does in the OT. Why would a Jedi Master need a cane though? Same reason everyone else uses a cane. Because they are no longer as capable of supporting themselves upright as they used to be. When he needed to, he could go without, and use the Force, but he only gets rid of the cane when its combat time. Unless you want to argue that he always needed the cane, even when he was much, much younger, due to some natural physical ailment, you have to conclude even Yoda isn't quite the spring chicken he once was. He didn't always need the cane, his body used to be strong enough to allow him to get along just fine without it. Now, he does need the cane to get around without having to tap into the Force to give him additional strength. Physically, Yoda isn't as strong as he once was. IE, age matters. It affected Yoda, it affected Qui-Gon Jinn, it would also affect Mace Windu. If Anakin could match Mace Windu's experience advantage, he could wear Windu down, to the point where Anakin can keep going, and Windu can't. Jedi can, and do get tired. Mace is more likely to get tired than Anakin is, because of the age difference, and Anakin's natural Force potential being higher. Mace would be in a position where he would need the fight to be shorter, because the longer it goes, the better chance Anakin has, because he has the better endurance, better strength, and more Force ability to draw upon. -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 4/24 1:41pm Subject: RE: Could Pre-Suit Darth Vader defeat Mace Windu? - Date Edited: 4/24 1:44pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Arawn_Fenn
	It should probably be mentioned that Senate pods levitate on their own without Force users having to be there. -----signature----- The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach "I'm a dude playing a dude disguised as another dude." - Kirk Lazarus
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