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Topic:
Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 9:14am
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
- Date Edited:
12/3/07 9:15am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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Maul was definitely a skilled saberist but he comes up short when comparing with two saberists who have mastered every form, one who created a new form, and one who is the Chosen One.
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"When we do appear we can be killers, but we can also be healers. Thank the Force for that." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 9:25am
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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If you are implying that Mace had an advantage over Maul because of Vaapad, then I disagree. Maul mastered Juyo, while the Jedi believed it to be incomplete. Maul used Juyo in the opposite way that Windu did. Windu wanted the darkside to pass through the user, while the Sith would not. IMO, at teh very least: Maul on Juyo = Mace on Vaapad. Too similar for me to call it any other way.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 9:30am
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
- Date Edited:
12/3/07 9:31am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Master_Starwalker
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I don't even think Maul's skill with Juyo alone was equal to Mace's with Vaapad. Overall given his Teräs Käsi and Jar'Kai knowledge possibly, but even then I just don't see a Vaapad using Mace having much trouble with Maul given that every advantage of Maul's would also be working against him given Vaapad's "superconducting loop." The main difference I see between Vaapad and Juyo is that Juyo is a just an incredibly potent saber form while Vaapad lets Mace use his enemy's strength as his own.
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"When we do appear we can be killers, but we can also be healers. Thank the Force for that." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 10:31am
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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My favourite word on these boards is "obviously", a good second is "clearly." I find that I use them too quite frequently 
Nothing is obvious or clear. If it was, then Maul would have won over Obi-Wan, and Anakin would have won over Obi-Wan. IMHO, Yoda would also have won over Sideous... (but that's another discussion)
Now, Obi-Wan was less skilled than Maul - I think most of us can agree on that. It also concurs with what Yoda says about the dark-side; that it's quicker, easier, more seductive... At a young age, which Maul and OBW were at in TPM, the dark-side would give them an edge. When they mature, the dark-side should play less of a role. Remember, it is when OBW thinks clearly and lets go of the dark-side that he defeats Maul. It is the exact same that happens in his duel with Anakin.
The difference between the two duels was that OBW and Qui-Gon most likely thought they would be on top of things. They weren't. When Qui-Gon died, OBW went ballistic. He came out a 110%, actually driving Maul back - but Maul proved too skilled. In his duel with Anakin, OBW fights much more calculated. He knows that Anakin is too good to stand toe to toe with, so he constantly backs, defending as few others could. It was good tactics, and wise. And I'm not so sure that OBW wouldn't beat Anakin again...
Force power-wise, Anakin doesn't appear to be much more powerful than OBW, which the power-duel shows. Maul is more unknown as he doesn't use the force much. Interesting to notice though, that Maul had to use the force to take out OBW...
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 11:01am
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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The novelization of TPM was written before the other two films, where we would see who was the best and who wasn't. Maul was good, but there were others who were better. Maul did win the fight, but he lost the war due to his arrogance.
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SithMaster_69
Registered:
May '07
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 11:28am
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
- Date Edited:
12/3/07 11:32am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
SithMaster_69
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OB1's victory over Maul was mainly due to 1 big factor: Maul's arrogance. Not skill.
His Victory over Vader was basically the same. While Vader was stronger, his arrogance led him to making a stupid mistake that OB1's experience allowed him to take advantage of.
Both Maul & Vader were better fighters. Though OB1 did hold his own. but in the end of the day, it was the mistakes that they made that allowed OB1 to win.
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Icestar63
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 11:46am
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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Master_Starwalker posted:
You can given that Lucas has said
"You have to be either Mace or Yoda to compete with the Emperor, If Anakin hadn't got all beat-up, he could've beat the Emperor."
and Gillard has said
"Obi-Wan is at a level 8, which is where Anakin starts. But Anakin jumps to level 9 -- and the difference between 8 and 9 is enormous. A Jedi can get to level 9, but that's the difference between light and dark. The duel actually gives you quite an idea about these characters, because Anakin has learned the fighting, he's enormously talented -- but he hasn't learned the mental side of it."- Gillard in the article "Dueling Jedi".
and
"Sidious is a level nine (out of ten). On this film, Obi is eight-he's moved up-Anakin is a nine; Mace is a nine, Yoda is a nine. They're up with Sidious. Once you get to eight, you have a Pandora's box. You could go any way with it. The way not to go is the dark side. But it would tempt you, because that would jump you right past the others. So you need to arrive at level eight at the right age-not as young as Anakin. That young, the dark side is too tempting."
I am still confused about this quote. Is Nick Gillard saying that Anakin was a level 8 before Anakin turned to the dark side or is he just saying that choosing the dark side will make you a level 9 if you are a level 8? 
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 11:52am
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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Yes.
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Icestar63
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 12:06pm
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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Thanks!
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 2:03pm
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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What would that make Yoda and Mace had they turned?
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EECHUUTA
Registered:
Mar '07
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 4:29pm
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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Probably an upper nine, or a lower ten.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 5:31pm
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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I'd say they'd be 10s for sure.
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"When we do appear we can be killers, but we can also be healers. Thank the Force for that." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 9:36pm
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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Here is question for all those who embrace a larger view of the saga, and it fits with this thread. Does anyone here believe that Obi-Wan Kenobi could have taken out Black Sun just as Maul did? I mean step for step, with saber in hand, switch them out... I say no-way. If Kenobi somehow managed to make it to Mighella, there was no way he could resist Force lightning he first time he sees it... (which it would be for him) Maul on the other hand apparently eats Sith Lightning for breakfast. The comic merely said he resisted it... much to her shock.
The only jedi that I think could pull it off at that time would have been Mace.
If any Jedi could, he was the one. Plus in the Republic omic series Mace' has shown he can deal with bounty hunters. if lightning hit Mace square-on, I think he would suffer it full effect... I think Vaapad would allow some of it, a small portion of it to pass through him.
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
12/3/07 10:22pm
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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I think that Obi-Wan could have. He'd have no trouble with the Vigos, etc. As for Mighella, I see no reason to believe Obi-Wan wouldn't block it with his saber as he blocks Dooku's in AotC.
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"When we do appear we can be killers, but we can also be healers. Thank the Force for that." - Obi-Wan Kenobi
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Amrita_Glittersong
Registered:
Jan '07
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Date Posted:
12/4/07 3:56am
Subject:
RE: Results vs Skill Level: you can't have it both way (Anakin, Kenobi and Maul)
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Actually, Obi-Wan does wipe out quite a few people in Black Sun, in the comic Obsession. Takes out all the asassins, then invades one of the fortresses, kills/defeats all the guards, and pummels Lord Xist in a hand to hand fight.
Pretty awesome comic, really.
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