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Author	Topic: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
Padawan_of_Palpatine Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 1/7 7:15pm Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
	SHAD0W-JEDI posted: I do take some issue with those who "like" Anakin or Padme so much that they seek to justify the evil they do (in the case of Anakin) or the very very bad choices they make (either of them), or who become a bit TOO forgiving and understanding. I guess this becomes a point where some of us will end up agreeing to disagree. I personally don't see how someone can have a problem with the line that another person draws regarding understanding and forgiveness. I can see where someone would be less, or more, forgiving than I may be. But by no means do I (for lack of better term) take issue with that. Now please don't confuse my understanding as a sign of compliance. I do not remotely support Anakin's evils, or either of their terrible decisions. If my wife cheated on me, I would want to forgive her. And if I was able to get over it, that would not mean that I am saying it was OK for her to cheat. It just means that I am willing to look past the deed and attempt to move on. Now with Padme, forgiveness is not an issue. For her, understanding is the angle I'm coming from. Now Anakin....forgiveness is a shakey issue, so I will leave that alone in this thread. But understanding....I can find a bit for him. But I see where you're coming from though. SHAD0W-JEDI posted: But I digress .... this IS a Padme-centered discussion, after all...S That's the thing with those 2 wacky kids . Can't have one without the other. Can't have peanut butter without jelly...bread without meat....frick without frack....arm without hammer....you get the idea -----signature----- http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Co1tStreeter77 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmqqpblrQpw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALlLrc4Va-M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDCBeWeSDtk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l5ynsThVxw
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RamRed Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 1/7 9:13pm Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS? - Date Edited: 1/7 9:15pm (1 edits total) Edited By: RamRed
	He admitted to what he did. He even seemed to understand what he did was wrong. He was apparantly blaming himself for not being a better Jedi. He actually said that he was better than that. Now, at this point, Padme feels she needs to give him perspective. A bit of understanding from her perspective. This is where it would have been really good if she could have shared this with Obi. Anakin really needed a Jedi's view on the situation. It was not Padme's role to tell Obi-Wan what had happened. She was not Anakin's parent or guardian. And I doubt that Anakin needed a "Jedi's view" on the situation. I really don't see how they would have helped. Anakin felt remorse for his actions. Even three years later, he was still harboring remorse. I really don't see how Obi-Wan would help. Why do people think that the Jedi had the answers to all of life's problems? True, and I suppose it makes sense that Padme wouldn't understand just what anger can do to a Jedi. The same thing that anger can do to a non-Jedi. Anger does not always have a negative effect on someone. Sometimes, it has a positive effect. It depends upon the situation. In the situation regarding Shmi's death, it had a negative effect on Anakin. And he acknowledged it. He certainly did not need Obi-Wan's help to reach this view.
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET Registered: Nov '07	Date Posted: 1/8 8:23am Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS? - Date Edited: 1/8 8:26am (1 edits total) Edited By: DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
	RamRed posted: He admitted to what he did. He even seemed to understand what he did was wrong. He was apparantly blaming himself for not being a better Jedi. He actually said that he was better than that. Now, at this point, Padme feels she needs to give him perspective. A bit of understanding from her perspective. This is where it would have been really good if she could have shared this with Obi. Anakin really needed a Jedi's view on the situation. It was not Padme's role to tell Obi-Wan what had happened. She was not Anakin's parent or guardian. And I doubt that Anakin needed a "Jedi's view" on the situation. I really don't see how they would have helped. Anakin felt remorse for his actions. Even three years later, he was still harboring remorse. I really don't see how Obi-Wan would help. Why do people think that the Jedi had the answers to all of life's problems? True, and I suppose it makes sense that Padme wouldn't understand just what anger can do to a Jedi. The same thing that anger can do to a non-Jedi. Anger does not always have a negative effect on someone. Sometimes, it has a positive effect. It depends upon the situation. In the situation regarding Shmi's death, it had a negative effect on Anakin. And he acknowledged it. He certainly did not need Obi-Wan's help to reach this view. I think the fact that Padme didn't tell anyone is a very worrying side to her personality. Anakin not needing a "Jedi's view" isnt important here. He is the chosen one and has just given into the Dark Side and killed women and child. If Padme wasn't able to or didn't want to help him she should have told someone who could i.e Obi Wan. Obi Wan has been his friend and mentor for over 10 years I think its pretty obvious he would have been able to help him. As a result of Padme not telling anyone.... well you only need to watch ROTS to see that. As a wise green midget once said "once you start down the dark path forever will it control your destiny" -----signature----- Time is a great teacher, pity it kills all of its students.
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Strilo Title: PT Manager Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 1/8 9:49am Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
	Yet Yoda was wrong about that. Anakin returned to the light side of the Force, so clearly it doesn't dominate your destiny forever. -----signature----- #1 on iTunes Most Played: R.E.M. "Imitation of Life" #1 on iTunes Film Scores: Harry Potter "A Window to the Past" * * * * * * "Corrupt, you corrupt and bring corruption to all that you touch. Hold, you’ll behold and beholden for all that you’ve done."
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Padawan_of_Palpatine Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 1/8 10:25am Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
	DARTH-SMELLY-FEET posted: I think the fact that Padme didn't tell anyone is a very worrying side to her personality. Anakin not needing a "Jedi's view" isnt important here. He is the chosen one and has just given into the Dark Side and killed women and child. If Padme wasn't able to or didn't want to help him she should have told someone who could i.e Obi Wan. Obi Wan has been his friend and mentor for over 10 years I think its pretty obvious he would have been able to help him. As a result of Padme not telling anyone.... well you only need to watch ROTS to see that. This is very important to me. Now I do feel like she helped him in her own way. She provided him comfort during a difficult time. The problem comes when she does not tell him that his actions were wrong. As a person that cares for someone, it is your "duty" to do what is best for them. Regardless of how hard it is. Whether that calls for your support, or if it calls for you to put them in their place when they're wrong, you must do it. If not, the next thing you can do is advise them to talk to someone who can, or tell someone (close to that person) who is willing to. It is not her responsibility to make sure Obi-wan, or any Jedi, helps Anakin. But it is her responsibility to do the right thing. For Padme, it seems it WOULD HAVE been to play "good cop" and let Obi-wan play "bad cop". If you can't be the stern one, find someone who can. Especially when that other person understands that great anger + great power = BAD NEWS. -----signature----- http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Co1tStreeter77 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmqqpblrQpw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALlLrc4Va-M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDCBeWeSDtk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l5ynsThVxw
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SithStarSlayer Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 1/8 12:36pm Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
	Vortigern99 posted: SithStarSlayer posted: NATIONALGREATNESS posted: SithStarSlayer posted: I'm not sure.........I think his turn was ok, but it could have been better......he should have been more after power and more evil. I'm sure that I liked his turn a whole lot more than the way it ended up. Originally, there was no mention of Padme, no tears, no sobbing... just the desire for more power. Just like OT Vader would have wanted... The desire to keep Padme alive is the desire for more power. What is "power" but the means to effect change in the world according to one's own wishes? To control fate? Keeping a loved one from dying is the ultimate power, and in seeking the one, Anakin seeks the other. I think we are on the same page. Let me clarify: Before the turn was changed, the reason was still the same... the only difference is that there was no mention of Padme's name. Because of that, there were no tears, no sobbing and no wimpy "I'll do whatever... I can't live without her" stuff. What I liked about the original version was that the reason was implied; rather than slapping us in the face with it. "I want the power to cheat death." was what he originally said. IMO, that is more in-line with Classic Vader, than the way it ended up. -----signature----- Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction o[[]\|[ooooooooooo]\|[0]\|[\|]\|[
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Vortigern99 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 1/8 2:03pm Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
	^ ^ ^ Slayer, fair enough -- though I might counter that the sobbing, weepy version that made it into the film is more in line with a metaphorical "birth" that is happening before our eyes. The more overtly power-hungry Vader, seemingly untainted by emotional/romantic longings, is a later (OT-era) development of the mature Vader. -----signature----- "I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction. I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece, a fairy tale."--George Lucas My "Vader's Origins" thread: http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Master_Starwalker Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 1/8 5:14pm Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
	Anger does not always have a negative effect on someone. Sometimes, it has a positive effect. It depends upon the situation. In the situation regarding Shmi's death, it had a negative effect on Anakin. And he acknowledged it. He certainly did not need Obi-Wan's help to reach this view. Anger doesn't turn non-Jedi into an agent of evil who can shoot lightning and choke people with their mind. Strilo posted: Yet Yoda was wrong about that. Anakin returned to the light side of the Force, so clearly it doesn't dominate your destiny forever. Yoda was right. "Dominate your destiny" =/= Irredeemable. Anakin's time on the Dark Side still dominated his destiny as while redeemed, he died because of his time as a Sith Lord. -----signature----- "Creativity is piercing the mundane to find the marvelous." - Bill Moyers "In a dark place we find ourselves… and a little more knowledge might light our way." - Yoda
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SithStarSlayer Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 1/8 5:37pm Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
	I'll give you that Vortigern, and it works as presented... for me, it just doesn't jive with his dialogue earlier about wanting more. That conversation with Padme tied directly into what was cut, and it makes him look wimpy after talking about what he coveted Let's not forget his bragadocious talk about his exponential power increase with Dooku. Power. Power. Power. Lucas made it a point to have him talk about it at crucial times, the least he could have done was be decisive about the turn before he started. He had 15 years to think about it. But, like I said, as presented... Vader's turn, works. (I loved being spoiled for the first two, but I regret being spoiled for ROTS.) -----signature----- Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction o[[]\|[ooooooooooo]\|[0]\|[\|]\|[
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Vortigern99 Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 1/8 10:01pm Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
	Slayer, I'm glad to read that you believe the turn "works". Given that you're... shall we say, hard-to-please?... concerning the PT, we should take your favorable opinion here as high praise indeed. -----signature----- "I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction. I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece, a fairy tale."--George Lucas My "Vader's Origins" thread: http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET Registered: Nov '07	Date Posted: 1/9 1:29am Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
	Strilo posted: Yet Yoda was wrong about that. Anakin returned to the light side of the Force, so clearly it doesn't dominate your destiny forever. Thats true and its a good point, I stand corrected. -----signature----- Time is a great teacher, pity it kills all of its students.
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SithStarSlayer Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 1/9 10:18am Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
	Vortigern99 posted: Slayer, I'm glad to read that you believe the turn "works". Given that you're... shall we say, hard-to-please?... concerning the PT, we should take your favorable opinion here as high praise indeed. It's all good Vort. I love Star Wars, always have. I'm pragmatist, and what I write often comes across as... harsh. Lucas was absolutely wonderful with certain aspects of the PT, and on other parts... he's left me scratching my mellon. Ultimately, the PT is nothing more than the sum of it's parts, and I enjoyed most of them. There are still a few things still worth discussing (at least to me) and for as long as they hold my interest, I'll be here. Robust-dialogue, is good for us all... As for high praise, I reserve that for MY maker. The stuff I do here is nothing more than tossing two-pennies around. -----signature----- Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction o[[]\|[ooooooooooo]\|[0]\|[\|]\|[
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NATIONALGREATNESS Registered: Dec '06	Date Posted: 1/13 9:17am Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS? - Date Edited: 1/14 10:04am (1 edits total) Edited By: Strilo
	Sith, I'm surprised. I thought that you were firmly against almost all of the PT and didn't like ROTS at all. If you want to feel that way, that's fine. Why have you become more moderate? And I must say, the fact that no one is really paying attention to any of my points hardly at all, and that people are now finding excuses to justify the sexism prevalent in AOTC and ROTS, is making me feel really depressed and angry. The truth is, like it or not, the PT IS Sexist. Lucas is sexist. And I'm not being Politically Correct here, the proof of that is that I'm a man. I just find it sickening and terrible to see that most women don't even care about losing their rights to evil, immature, dangerous, stupid, sexist men like Anakin. He's an awful character created by a man who obviously has about as much understanding of women as I have of, say, Genetic Evolution - that is, none at all. Sith Star Slayer was undoubtedly correct in stating that Lucas's now ex wife wrote the women's parts for the original trilogy. And that is why Leia did Not become a weak character who was pushed around by any men, why she stayed strong throughout the OT, while Padme did slowly became weaker throughout the PT. And I'm sorry, but I don't buy this "Padme likes Anakin because he's a 'bad boy'" at all. If she was Younger than him, then maybe yes! But she's not! She's older! And there's no reason for an intelligent, kind, compassionate older woman like her to fall for a dangerous, stupid, immoral, cruel, screwed up, and totally immature teenage boy like him. It's just poor writing and sexism. I wouldn't be surprised if they got married rather than just being boyfriend/girlfriend because Anakin said to Padme: "I always knew that I would marry you when I was a kid. So you have to marry me now, because I tell you to." Padme replies: "Yes, sir." shakes head Seriously, that's how I see that scene which we never saw now. There's nothing romantic about it at all. In fact, I would even call it evil, especially as they both know it is against the Jedi code, and Padme is supposed to be responsible. Oh, and the Jedi are good. The Sith are evil. That's not something that I want to debate, but I do not believe Star Wars is a morally ambigious story or that it will ever be. If it is, then the PT has destroyed everything that made Star Wars Star Wars - a heroic battle between heroic, noble good guys, the rebels and Luke as a Jedi, and an evil, totalitarian stalinist dictatorship, that is immoral, totally villainous, and purely evil, the Empire. I hope that isn't true, and in ROTS people still see Mace as a good guy even if he executed Sidious and Sidious as the evil villain who tricked Anakin, no matter what. But who knows nowadays. Strilo edit: I think it's probably best if we keep things on the topic and not on your personal crisis.
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Padawan_of_Palpatine Registered: Mar '03	Date Posted: 1/13 3:16pm Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS? - Date Edited: 1/14 10:06am (1 edits total) Edited By: Strilo
	I feel as if I have constantly taken an objective approach on this topic. I, as well as many posters, have stated that the actions of Anakin were wrong. We also acknowledged that Padme made some VERY bad calls throughout the PT regarding Ani. But I don't think anyone is in support of evil acts. I really don't get that impression. NATIONALGREATNESS posted: I wouldn't be surprised if they got married rather than just being boyfriend/girlfriend because Anakin said to Padme: "I always knew that I would marry you when I was a kid. So you have to marry me now, because I tell you to." Padme replies: "Yes, sir." shakes head Seriously, that's how I see that scene which we never saw now. There's nothing romantic about it at all. In fact, I would even call it evil, especially as they both know it is against the Jedi code, and Padme is supposed to be responsible. Now this is something......I will admit that Anakin had faults, but I am trying to think back over the PT and remember the times where Anakin TOLD or FORCED Padme to do anything. You continue to talk about how he controlled her and act as if he went caveman on her. And before you say it, I know........HE FORCE CHOKED HER. However, I don't think many will argue with you that the choke WAS abusive behavior. So once again, where are the examples of where he tried to control her. Yeah he wanted to learn to cheat death to keep her alive for him. But that isn't trying to control her. That's merely keeping her alive for selfish reasons. I don't know. I guess we really view this whole thing differently. Wow....Where should I start?....Okay....(deep breath, and exhale). I think I will pose a question before I give a statement. Did anybody ever think that the whole "Vader is Luke's father" story was a big lie (even at the end of ROTJ when Luke and Vader and The Emperor were discussing)? Did anybody ever think that Obi's story about the Republic being turned into an Empire was a lie? Because if these were lies, I can see where one would be shocked with the characters behavior and how things transpired. But since they were not lies, there are a few things that we could assume going into this trilogy. Anakin needed to do evil things. The Jedi needed to make mistakes. Padme needed to use poor judgment. The reason why we needed the Rebels to defeat the Empire is because the Empire had been winning. If Anakin, and the Jedi, and Padme would have done the right things, the OT would not exist. How can anyone expect a non-tragic trilogy when the works that we already saw dictated that things ended horribly. I'm sorry if I am not understanding your point, or just misinterpreting your message. But I don't really get what it is that you wanted from the PT. And one more thing....I don't see where these movies "encourage evil". They are more like lessons in my eyes. Do bad things and bad things happen to you. There are plenty of movies where the bad person (trying to not be sexist) gets away with the crime and triumphs over good. I view it as a cautionary tale of what could happen if people aren't careful. I don't mean to be hostile. Please don't think that. I totally respect your opinions, and I truly believe these types of discussions are great for hardcore and casual SW fans. Expanding the mind is always a good thing. -----signature----- http://www.youtube.com/profile?user=Co1tStreeter77 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmqqpblrQpw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ALlLrc4Va-M http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MDCBeWeSDtk http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-l5ynsThVxw
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RamRed Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 1/14 9:14pm Subject: RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS? - Date Edited: 1/15 12:15am (3 edits total) Edited By: Strilo
	I think the fact that Padme didn't tell anyone is a very worrying side to her personality. Oh for Pete's sake! She wasn't his damn mother! Nor was it her business to go running to Obi-Wan and the Jedi to snitch about what happened to the Tuskens. Anakin should have done that. And he didn't. I wouldn't be surprised if they got married rather than just being boyfriend/girlfriend because Anakin said to Padme: "I always knew that I would marry you when I was a kid. So you have to marry me now, because I tell you to." Padme replies: "Yes, sir." shakes head Seriously, that's how I see that scene which we never saw now. There's nothing romantic about it at all. In fact, I would even call it evil, especially as they both know it is against the Jedi code, and Padme is supposed to be responsible. I'm going to be extremely rude here. The above is about the dumbest thing I have ever read. Period. Strilo edit: Stop and think before you hit the "post" button. Try to make sure you are adding to the conversation in a positive manner, as well as maintaining your opinion and keeping within the Terms Of Service. Make sure that your post is germaine and on-topic.
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