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Topic:
Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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battlewars
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
12/29/07 11:20am
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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Although why Padme is so suprised that Anakin slaughters the younglings after the tusken slaughter is strange.
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
12/29/07 11:57am
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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THAT... is the BIG debate.
She cries over a few horned, lekku and tentacle-headed babies at a school but those wearing a tribal mask in the dessert don't count. Makes no sense to me.
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
12/29/07 12:17pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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All I can think of is that she could rationalize the death of the Tuskens by thinking "Maybe Cliegg and Anakin are right about the Tuskens. It's not that bad if they're just animals." whereas with the Jedi she knows for a fact that they were compassionate and intelligent beings.
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"Surely you must understand that the means are no less important than the ends." - Luke Skywalker
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
12/29/07 6:20pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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I think I'm done with this subject.
There isn't much more to discuss, IMO.
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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QuiGonHrafn
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
12/30/07 8:28am
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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She knows what he did was wrong but is simply trying to comfort at Anakin as he has lost his mother. This scene was added on the DVD and that was a mistake. They should have let the scene remain as it was in the theatrical version as that scene showed Padmé comforting Anakin but without this added line.
But she isn't saying Anakin was right to do what he did. She didn't want to attack Anakin at this time in his life. But she knew what he did was wrong which is indicated by her reaction at the end of ROTS - there she is disgusted by what Anakin had done.
Personally I think Lucas should remove this scene. It makes no sense, is unimportant in the trilogy and is out of character for Padmé of Episode I and III.
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MisterVader
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
12/30/07 11:50am
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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SithStarSlayer posted:
THAT... is the BIG debate.
She cries over a few horned, lekku and tentacle-headed babies at a school but those wearing a tribal mask in the dessert don't count. Makes no sense to me.
Seriously? The Tuskens KILLED HIS MOTHER and the Younglings DIDN'T DO ANYTHING. That's the important, obvious difference.
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
12/30/07 8:16pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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Allow me to repost from just up above:
Anakin's only right of retribution was to those who were directly responsible for his mother's death. ((not the whole tribe))
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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MisterVader
Registered:
Nov '06
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Date Posted:
12/30/07 9:09pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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SithStarSlayer posted:
Allow me to repost from just up above:
Anakin's only right of retribution was to those who were directly responsible for his mother's death. ((not the whole tribe))
All of them are responsible. The whole tribe keeps her captive.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
12/30/07 9:19pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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zombie posted:
Arawn_Fenn posted:
zombie posted:
Aside from the fact that eye for any eye is supposed to be proportional--if we are to take this law in the serious literal manner that Sinister is proposing then Anakin far exceeded the "just" retribution of the single life the Tusken Raiders took; they killed his mother so he comitted tribal genocide. According to Sinister's law of humanity, Anakin was only justified to kidnap one of the Tusken Raider women and then kill her after a week of captivity.
CLIEGG: Thirty of us went out after her. Four of us came back.
Well, I never took that as meaning that they actually found the Tusken's but were then massacred, but rather that the Tatooine wilderness slowly claimed their lives as their quest went on and they had to give up and turn back home.
They do have speeder bikes, you know. Technology. Landspeeders, radios and such.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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battlewars
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
12/30/07 9:42pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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Remember the dark side consumed Anakin when he cut down the Tuskens, the younglings are another matter, because Anakin didn't seem to be in a worked up state before he killed them.
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BobaFrank
Registered:
Jul '01
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Date Posted:
12/30/07 9:46pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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Sorry, didn't read all the posts, but Padme's character changed because that's what storytelling is about. There has to be character development if it's going to be a good story IMO. Seeing a character change for the good or bad and delving into their phyche helps the viewer or reader understand a character better.
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"Fear leads to anger, anger leads to hate, hate leads to suffering." -Yoda TPM
"May the Force Be with You."
"One Nation Under GOD."
"I want to come with you to Alderaan and become a Jedi like my father."
"I am a Jedi. Like my father before me."
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
12/31/07 7:49am
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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I hear what you are saying and agree whole heartedly. As has been pointed out on this one, I just think there were many people very disappointed in the direction Padme went.. We expect Anakin to turn to the dark side.. But I'm not sure any of us are really happy with the way Padme's story is told... Her "growth" is actually "shrinkage" - which works for the tragedy.. But I'm not sure it is recognized as the tragedy it is. We are just all realizing that element of the story. 
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LemmingLord
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NATIONALGREATNESS
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
1/3 9:25am
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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SithStarSlayer, Zombie, Master_Starwalker, I agree with the three of you completely. You are some of the only people around here who aren't Anakin apologists or Lucas apologists.
Unfortunately most people here seem to be Anakin Ultra fans and Anakin lovers and are as such Anakin Apologists. For them Anakin can do no wrong, that's why they say that it's ok for him to murder children, and that the Jedi are bad, and other such rubbish. 
We need to form an Anti-Anakin league. Not against Anakin apologists as people, they are entitled to their opinions, but I think it is evil. Anakin is a bad person right from the Start of AOTC in my view now, and Padme is a big idiot for falling in love with him. What the hell kind of woman is attracted to a teenage boy five years younger than her anyway, for god's sake? He's not only immature, stupid, dangerous, and clearly not very moral, he's also younger than her. And she willing becomes his slave? What the hell is wrong with her?
I never thought I'd be bashing the prequels again, and I'm not a basher, but I am bashing this element of them. I think Lucas clearly doesn't understand the way women's minds work at all. And he manages to make Anakin totally unlikeable, rather the opposite of Luke, who is very likeable right from the start.
And unlike Anakin, Luke never does something immoral just to save one person.
Sorry if I seem a little hostile here, but I am sick of seeing all of the Anakin Apologism around everywhere. And all of the Anakin fangirls drooling over Anakin like he is a god in the fanfic forum, always talking about how "sweet" the Anakin/Padme romance is. Hah, sweet. More like pathetic to me. 
He should have fallen in love with some other girl, a girl that was younger than him, and also tougher.
I think if anything, it is Obi-Wan that Padme should have fallen in love with.
Heck, even Mace would have been better for her than Anakin. 
Lol, no seriously, do any of you guys think that if Mace had been a little more like Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon, that he and Padme could have.......well, been together in that way convincingly?
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
1/3 11:42am
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
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NATIONALGREATNESS posted:
SithStarSlayer, Zombie, Master_Starwalker, I agree with the three of you completely. You are some of the only people around here who aren't Anakin apologists or Lucas apologists.
While unable to speak for Masters' Zombie and Starwalker, I can at least say thank you for the kind words. As a pragmatist, I examine EVERYTHING and don't appologize for it.
NATIONALGREATNESS posted:
What the hell kind of woman is attracted to a teenage boy five years younger than her anyway, for god's sake?
I have yet to meet a teenage girl on this planet that thinks YOUNGER boys are all the rage. The only women who dig younger men are "cougars"... and Padme hardly fits that descrip.
NATIONALGREATNESS posted:
He's not only immature, stupid, dangerous, and clearly not very moral, he's also younger than her. And she willing becomes his slave? What the hell is wrong with her?
While I don't completely agree w/ the word 'slave' I think I understand your meaning behind its use. For me the biggest issue is that Lucas didn't handle the Luv-stuff in Classic Trilogy, his X-wife did. Her subtle hand was SORELY missed throughout the PT. Anyone who disagrees should look no further than the hardware. The former Mrs Lucas has the Oscar, not George.
NATIONALGREATNESS posted:
I never thought I'd be bashing the prequels again, and I'm not a basher, but I am bashing this element of them. I think Lucas clearly doesn't understand the way women's minds work at all. And he manages to make Anakin totally unlikeable, rather the opposite of Luke, who is very likeable right from the start.
See, I don't think yer bashing... They are what they are(the movies) and you are just commenting on what doesn't make sense to you. Nothing wrong with that at all. I also agree 100% that Lucas doesn't have a clue (like most men) when it comes femininity, womanhood and anything else related to the opposite sex.
The fact that you don't like Anakin is interesting.
Is it because of how he was portrayed, or because of how he was written?
Or both?
See I like Anakin, I don't like how his turn came across, almost like he had no choice.
At least thats how I see it.
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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NATIONALGREATNESS
Registered:
Dec '06
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Date Posted:
1/3 1:24pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's character change so much between TPM, AOTC, and ROTS?
- Date Edited:
1/3 1:28pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
NATIONALGREATNESS
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SithStarSlayer posted:
While unable to speak for Masters' Zombie and Starwalker, I can at least say thank you for the kind words. As a pragmatist, I examine EVERYTHING and don't appologize for it.
That's always a good thing. That is, examining everything properly and never shying away from justified criticism.
SithStarSlayer posted:
I have yet to meet a teenage girl on this planet that thinks YOUNGER boys are all the rage. The only women who dig younger men are "cougars"... and Padme hardly fits that descrip.
So you agree with me that she logically shouldn't be attracted to him?
This is good, but it still doesn't answer why. Of course, I guess the main answer is that Lucas really thought that she should be the woman he married. But that, to me, just shows a lack of creativity on Lucas's part. Why couldn't Lucas have brought in another girl for Anakin to fall in love with? Preferably, one younger than him who wasn't a politician. She could be about 16 or 17 in AOTC, which would make a hell of a lot more sense than Padme falling for him. Younger girls could indeed be attracted to Anakin, and that would be a lot less sexist too.
And then Padme could have fallen for Obi-Wan instead.
Of course Anakin could still have been attracted to Padme, but she would be with Obi-Wan, which would lead to jealousy between the two, and a lot of problems when Anakin's girlfriend, the hypothetical younger girl, found out that her boyfriend was messing around with another woman too.
SithStarSlayer posted:
While I don't completely agree w/ the word 'slave' I think I understand your meaning behind its use. For me the biggest issue is that Lucas didn't handle the Luv-stuff in Classic Trilogy, his X-wife did. Her subtle hand was SORELY missed throughout the PT. Anyone who disagrees should look no further than the hardware. The former Mrs Lucas has the Oscar, not George.
That's interesting. Perhaps Lucas should have just really got in some female screenwriters to help with Padme's character. Do you think that would have made her character more realistic?
SithStarSlayer posted:
See, I don't think yer bashing... They are what they are(the movies) and you are just commenting on what doesn't make sense to you. Nothing wrong with that at all. I also agree 100% that Lucas doesn't have a clue (like most men) when it comes femininity, womanhood and anything else related to the opposite sex.
Yes, well, we men do find women hard to understand - not that there's anything to be ashamed of in that, though - they were weird, aren't they?
But for Lucas, he needed to find some woman to help him write Padme's character better.
SithStarSlayer posted:
The fact that you don't like Anakin is interesting.
Is it because of how he was portrayed, or because of how he was written?
Or both?
Well actually, I don't dislike Anakin that much really, I just don't like the fact that he is a sexist pig when it comes to women. He believes that he should "have" Padme just because he thought when he was a 9 year old kid that he would marry her!!!!! That's what I'm talking about, that kind of thing, it just proves that he is mentally unstable. And sexist, thinking that a grown woman who is older than him was "destined" to marry him. Totally stupid and wrong and annoying. I would never do that to any girl or woman, because I have more intelligence and respect.
And I don't see how Padme would be attracted to him - ergo, I didn't like the romance between them which I feel was silly, badly done, sexist, unrealistic, and loads of other things. It makes me dislike both Anakin's character and Padme's character.
This whole thing really started though with all of the Anakin/Padme fanfics in the fanfic forum. So many stories, by women and girls, being sexist against their own sex?!! I mean, what on earth is up with that? How can they possibly be so blinded by their lusting over Anakin that they can't see he's a murderous psycho who shouldn't be with any girl after killing those Tuskens, but should be in a mental asylum for the next year at least?!?!?
I really dislike those Anakin/Padme fanfics, so I'm gonna write a fanfic where:
Padme falls for Obi-Wan. Unlike Anakin, Obi-Wan is kind, nice, not sexist, and moral.
Anakin is still lusting after Padme and he is so horrible that he tries to rape her. She resists and beats him up.
Obi-Wan then appears and beats the snot out of Anakin when Anakin tries to strangle and kill Padme. Anakin then gets stabbed in the neck by Mace and thrown off a platform on Coruscant, where some socialist warmongers led by some version of Captain Piett turn him into the suited Vader, and they lead a rampage, while Palpatine turns Tarkin into a Sith Lord and also does something else that is creepy but funny. 
How does that sound?
SithStarSlayer posted:
See I like Anakin, I don't like how his turn came across, almost like he had no choice.
At least thats how I see it.
I'm not sure.........I think his turn was ok, but it could have been better......he should have been more after power and more evil.
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