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Topic:
prequels? ..Well originally George..
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/16 7:51pm
Subject:
prequels? ..Well originally George..
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Premise is: the concepts, dialogue, ideas that were in the books-keeping in mind that George approved every word - that didn't make it to the films and therefore aren't "canon" but reveal much. Things you bought, or are willing to consider as part of the Star Wars story because they were approved by the Maker.
TPM - The depths of Obi-Wan's disdain and arrogance for both Jar Jar and Anakin. and his rebelliousness and impatience that were attributed to his Padawan status. That Qui Gon had to remind him, more than once, that he didn't know everything - in the book Obi-Wan is repeatedly indicating, either in his words or thoughts, that Qui-Gon is mistaken in his "detours" (and that word is used). and how familiar we are with these traits that are all Anakin.
RotS - Padme revealing that she doesn't believe she will live much longer, and this was way before Mustafar.
There are many others - I am re-reading all the prequel novels and a lightbulb was lit.
Anyone wondering about the reference in TPM about the old pilot sensing something special in Anakin? Who was that suppose to be?
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
1/16 8:37pm
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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I always got the impression that guy was loosely based on a character from "The Ewok Adventure".
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/18 4:17pm
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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continuing my thoughts:
a few other concepts in the books: in the TPM book - C3PO has the "3" because Anakin wanted it to signify that he was part of his family of three - Shmi, himself and the droid of many words. Also in TPM book Terry Brooks writes of the ability of Anakin to connect with "other creatures", that he intuitively knew what they would do before they did, adding to Anakin's ability with the reek on Geonosis in AotC.
Another point from TPM book that so illustrates that George really wanted to stress Anakin was a good, unselfish child who, as Shmi says, gave without wanting anything in return: Anakin is sent by Watto to bargain with the Jawas. On the return trip he comes across a Tusken Raider near death who has been injured and is trapped. Even though C3PO does the nervous Nellie bit and warns Anakin about the danger of getting too close to the Raider, Anakin continues to try to aid the Tusken, to the point of staying all night with him rather than abandon him. In his thoughts he sees that here is a situation where the formidable, fearless, vicious Tusken Raider is helpless and beholden to his rescuer - the Raider is even a bit afraid, which surprises Anakin. So Anakin thinks to himself that he's never been afraid of anything....then he goes deeper and thinks - but what if something happened to his mother, would he be so fearless? and all of a sudden he is feels his courage leave him...
and for those who insist that every motive Anakin has is selfish - if you risk your life to run in a burning house to save your children, are you being selfish because you can't live w/o them? And this is what losing Padmé feels like to Anakin - who has already seen the nightmare predicting the death of his mother come true. It's very, very real to him. He had not acted on those nightmares in time to save his mother - does this not create a very real urgency to take action in time, remembering that Anakin will say, "I won't make this mistake again". - "I could have saved her....I know I could have"
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Valairy_Scot
Title: PT Rewrite Winner
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/18 5:52pm
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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lovelucas posted:
continuing my thoughts:
...and for those who insist that every motive Anakin has is selfish - if you risk your life to run in a burning house to save your children, are you being selfish because you can't live w/o them? And this is what losing Padmé feels like to Anakin - who has already seen the nightmare predicting the death of his mother come true. It's very, very real to him. He had not acted on those nightmares in time to save his mother - does this not create a very real urgency to take action in time, remembering that Anakin will say, "I won't make this mistake again". - "I could have saved her....I know I could have"
Not every motive Anakin has is selfish, but many are. Some may be combinations. If you save your kids (selfless act) because you can't live without them (possibly selfish), you are doing a good thing even if you are only saving them to save yourself grief.
That, in a nutshell, was some of Anakin's downfall. It is not selfish to try to save someone - it is selfish to sacrifice countless others so you won't feel bad if they die.
If he thought Padme or his supposed child was in danger, why didn't he see to it that she was checked over? Maybe he was only "seeing" her in labor.
Let's say Padme had terminal cancer and was going to die sometime between "now" and six months from "now." Sure he would want to stop it - perhaps try experimental treatments - but it would be selfish to kill another person because you've been told that doing so will save Padme.
In our world, in George's world, living beings will die, not love in return, move away, loose touch...all sorts of things that might cause a bit of pain or grief. We - they - cannot stop other peoples behavior because of how it affects us - and that is how Anakin comes across sometimes.
It may be perfectly human to want to stop that which will hurt us or others, and his mother's death was the catalyst, no doubt, for his desire for the power to protect others. Ultimately, though, he was trying to protect himself from losing something he cared about.
He had a good heart, but he thought with his heart only.
TPM - The depths of Obi-Wan's disdain and arrogance for both Jar Jar and Anakin. and his rebelliousness and impatience that were attributed to his Padawan status. That Qui Gon had to remind him, more than once, that he didn't know everything - in the book Obi-Wan is repeatedly indicating, either in his words or thoughts, that Qui-Gon is mistaken in his "detours" (and that word is used).
We may well disagree, but both Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon were right in some respects. If one has a duty to perform, getting sidetracked may not be wise.
Being so focused on one's duty that one does not see is also shortsighted, and often a flaw of youth as well as old age both.
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Yodas_Got_Bed_Head
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
1/19 7:16pm
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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lovelucas posted:
continuing my thoughts:
a few other concepts in the books: in the TPM book - C3PO has the "3" because Anakin wanted it to signify that he was part of his family of three - Shmi, himself and the droid of many words. Also in TPM book Terry Brooks writes of the ability of Anakin to connect with "other creatures", that he intuitively knew what they would do before they did, adding to Anakin's ability with the reek on Geonosis in AotC.
Another point from TPM book that so illustrates that George really wanted to stress Anakin was a good, unselfish child who, as Shmi says, gave without wanting anything in return: Anakin is sent by Watto to bargain with the Jawas. On the return trip he comes across a Tusken Raider near death who has been injured and is trapped. Even though C3PO does the nervous Nellie bit and warns Anakin about the danger of getting too close to the Raider, Anakin continues to try to aid the Tusken, to the point of staying all night with him rather than abandon him. In his thoughts he sees that here is a situation where the formidable, fearless, vicious Tusken Raider is helpless and beholden to his rescuer - the Raider is even a bit afraid, which surprises Anakin. So Anakin thinks to himself that he's never been afraid of anything....then he goes deeper and thinks - but what if something happened to his mother, would he be so fearless? and all of a sudden he is feels his courage leave him...
and for those who insist that every motive Anakin has is selfish - if you risk your life to run in a burning house to save your children, are you being selfish because you can't live w/o them? And this is what losing Padmé feels like to Anakin - who has already seen the nightmare predicting the death of his mother come true. It's very, very real to him. He had not acted on those nightmares in time to save his mother - does this not create a very real urgency to take action in time, remembering that Anakin will say, "I won't make this mistake again". - "I could have saved her....I know I could have"
Oddly enough I haven't read TPM & AOTC novels but you've forced me to go get them right now. You have brought forward some very interesting ideas IMHO...thanks!
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/20 10:49pm
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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That, in a nutshell, was some of Anakin's downfall. It is not selfish to try to save someone - it is selfish to sacrifice countless others so you won't feel bad if they die.
Yep very good, except I wouldnt use the term "selfish", to sacrifice countless others so you won't feel bad if they die. I would use the term "immoral", its way beyond selfish.
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
1/23 7:33am
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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lovelucas posted:
continuing my thoughts:
On the return trip he comes across a Tusken Raider near death who has been injured and is trapped. Even though C3PO does the nervous Nellie bit and warns Anakin about the danger of getting too close to the Raider, Anakin continues to try to aid the Tusken, to the point of staying all night with him rather than abandon him. In his thoughts he sees that here is a situation where the formidable, fearless, vicious Tusken Raider is helpless and beholden to his rescuer - the Raider is even a bit afraid, which surprises Anakin. So Anakin thinks to himself that he's never been afraid of anything....then he goes deeper and thinks - but what if something happened to his mother, would he be so fearless? and all of a sudden he is feels his courage leave him...
I really wish this scene had been included in the movie. George would've been smart to keep it in, but I'm sure he wasn't 100% sure on what specifically would be happening to Anakin. But if this scene was in TPM, the Tusken Slaughter would've been alot more powerful. Kinda like they betrayed Anakin after all he tried to do was help them. Just like the Mustafar scene with Padme.
It would still shadow Anakin's good side and vulnerability. He'd be betrayed by the people he was just trying to help. The Tuskens, Padme, Obi Wan ["you should have not come back..."]
But I like the idea of a completely evil monstrosity that was Vader.
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
2/2 12:00pm
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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A glimpse of the history of the Sith is also included in TPM book - via the thoughts of Darth Sidious -
The Sith had come into being almost 2000 years ago.....
Summarized: a rogue knight founded the Sith who understood the real power of the Force lay in the dark side....gains followers - the war against the Jedi is doomed due to the Sith destroying themselves in attempts to gain solo power - all died except one....Darth Bane.
And a glimpse of the essence of the Force, via Qui-Gon's thoughts: The Force was a complex and difficult concept. The Force was rooted in the balance of all things, and every movement within its flow risked an upsetting of that balance. A Jedi sought to keep the balance in place....But the Force existed on more than one plane, and achieving master of its multiple passages was a lifetime's work or more (my emphasis). He knew his own weakness. He was too close to the life Force when he should have been more attentive to the unifying Force. He found himself reaching out to the creatures of the present...He had less regard for the past or the future. It was the life Force that bound him, that gave him heart and mind and spirit.
So it was he empathized with Anakin Skywalker in ways that other Jedi would discourage, finding in this boy a promise he could not ignore. Obi-Wan would see the boy and Jar Jar in the same light - useless burdens, pointless projects, unnecessary distractons. Obi-Wan was grounded in the need to focus on the large picture, on the unifying Force. He lacked Qui-Gon's intuitive nature..etc.. This was not a criticism, only an observation. Who was to say that either of them was the better for how they interpreted the demands of the Force? But it placed them at odds sometimes, and more often than not it was Obi-Wan's position the Council supported, not Qui-Gon's. It would be that way again, he knew... Many times.
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
2/2 12:32pm
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
- Date Edited:
2/2 12:36pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
xx_Anakin_xx
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I always commisserate with the heroes, lol. I am a fantasy nut, what can I say? So I emphathised with Anakin, cheered on Lord Vader, and rallied behind him when he became Anakin again and fulfilled the prophecy. I didn't look at it in a real life literal way, but more as fantasy. Of course Vader did horrible things and was an evil dude, but admittedly, some of his evil antics were funny if looked at from an entertainment standpoint ('your apology is accepted, General' - the whole theatre cracked up). His trauma as Anakin came across more real - but even his whole downfall was a bit too fantastic to be real life. The killing of the younglings, his loss of Padme and Obi-Wan, his allowing Tarkin to go ahead with his demonstration and blowing up a planet, etc., were truly horrific moments and even in fantasy, one feels those types of things more than the rest. But again, we had to see a tremendous 'fall' so that we could feel the tremendous 'redemptive' moment. Anakin's heroic feats/good deeds and his mistakes/evil ways were HUGE in every respect, bigger than life. His power and ability to survive were also fantastic. But that was the destiny of the chosen one in this story.
From that standpoint, Anakin did selfish things at times - and almost always as Vader (but not always). He was terribly compassionate as Anakin and terribly hateful as Vader, but all in all it made for a dynamic and fantastic fantasy hero that was pretty unique at the time Star Wars was made - for a blockbuster anyway.
I did see a lot of tie ins with the prequel and classic trilogies, plus the novels and the movies - and also within the prequels themselves. My favorite is Anakin's quick lightsaber move to save Obi-Wan from death at Dooku's hand - and then doing the same thing as Vader to stop his son from slashing Lord Sidious in anger. The shot sequence was very similar, blade colors (in the updated versions) the same. It was pretty cool.
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
2/5 5:38pm
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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^^^ I look for and love those echoes^^
a bit more:
Dreams fade in time…..
..not this one… from TPM –
Anakin Skywalker dreamed that night….He was young still, though not so young as now, but old, too. He was cut from stone and his thoughts were emblazoned with a vision so frightening he could not bring himself to consider it fully…..It was vague and shadowy…..He turned away from a wave of dark movement that suddenly appeared before him…..
Padmé tries to wake him up - but Padmé was at the head of the dark wave of his dream, and the wave was an army, marching toward him. . . .
Anakin is now awake –
Anakin stared up at Padmé.He stared at her in confusion, for she had been the central figure in his dream, different from now, older, sadder. . . .and something more.
And this when Anakin learns he will have to leave Shmi…
He had dreamed about other words…..about becoming a pilot…and about becoming a Jedi. …..of becoming something more than a slave. He had wanted that more than anything….but he had never, ever considered the possibility he would have to leave his mother behind.
He is torn……but eventually –
“I will become a Jedi….and I will come back and free you, Mom. I promise.” Shmi replies: “No matter where you are, my love will be with you.”
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
2/5 5:39pm
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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and ...
This is in response to Qui Gon noting a vergence in the Force located around Anakin as a preface to his request to train him -
Qui-Gon nodded. "His cells have the highest concentration of midi-chlorians I have ever seen in a life-form.....It is possible he was conceived by midi-chlorians."
There was a shocked silence... Qui-Gon Jinn was suggesting the impossible, that the boy was conceived not by human contact, but by the essence of all life, by the connectors to the Force itself, the midi-chlorians. Comprising collective consciousness and intelligence, the midi-chlorians formed the link between everything living and the Force.
But there was more that troubled the Jedi Council. There was a prophecy, so old its origins had long since been lost, that a chosen one would appear, imbued with an abundance of midi-chlorians, a being strong with the Force and destined to alter it forever
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
2/6 7:38pm
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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AFAIK, Brooks was the only author to state that the prophecy said something about an abundance of midichlorians. This follows logically from dialogue in TPM.
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But, as Chaos-begotten power fills your being, you will have to fight, yet more strongly, to control the force within you."
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
2/10 7:55am
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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Evidence that R2 had flight capabilities – TPM book
The little droid beeped at Anakin cheerfully, then wandered over to the edge of the rampway to looking down at the traffic. In doing so, he leaned out too far and tumbled over, Anakin gasped, but a second later the astromech droid reappeared, boosted back onto the rampway by his onboard jets.
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
2/10 7:59am
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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more about the polarization caused by Anakin -
During the Jedi Council session discussing Anakin’s future:
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan exchanged quick, hard looks, and the measure of their newfound antagonism was palpable. The breach in their relationship was widening so quickly it could no longer be mapped.
And post Jedi Council discussion where Qui-Gon attempts to take Anakin as his Padawan Learner, shocking everyone, including Obi-Wan:
“It is not disrespect, Master!” Obi-Wan was saying vehemently. “It is the truth!”
“From your point of view, perhaps.” Qui –Gon’s face was hard and tight with anger.
Obi-Wan: “The boy is dangerous. They all sense it. Why can’t you?”
Qui-Gon: “His fate is uncertain, but he is not dangerous. The Council will decide Anakin’s future. That should be enough for you.” He turned away dismissively, “Now get on board!”
And just a reminder – Anakin heard the entire conversation.
And a tad later:
Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan stood together some distance away. The Jedi still weren’t speaking to each other….. The hard feelings caused by Qui-Gon’s bid to train Anakin did not soften. The boy had tried to talk to Obi-Wan once aboard the Queen’s ship, just to say he was sorry this had happened, but the younger Jedi had brushed him off. And when Obi-Wan finally puts everything together on Mustafar, do you think he remembers these times and all that went into making Anakin who he was? and does he remember how dangerous they thought Anakin was, even as a boy? Did he blame Anakin for Qui-Gon's death?
And even later:
Obi-Wan was beginning to feel uncomfortable with the situation... ..
Qui-Gon was like a father to him, the only father he knew (sound familiar?). He was angry that the Jedi Master would dismiss him so abruptly in favor of the boy, but he realized, too, the depth of Qui-Gon’s passion when he believed in something. He did not do so to slight his protégé. He did so because he believed in the boy’s destiny.
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Yub Yub makes the world go 'round
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Strilo
Title: PT Manager
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
2/10 10:02am
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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lovelucas please stop posting back to back. If you have something to add, please edit your existing post to add it.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
2/10 10:15am
Subject:
RE: prequels? ..Well originally George..
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When it comes to novelizations of most any film or film series, they will contain information not found in the final film. They will contain information found in various script drafts, which were dropped for one reason or another. Stuff like Threepio's name were found in an earlier draft, but Lucas dropped it and replaced it with the scene we have now. Brooks included it since he was not under any obligation to leave it out. Other scenes were written specifically for the book to further illustrate what was going on and to set up other stories, as you've noted. Brooks, Salvatore and Stover were given permission to do this.
This is why Lucasfilm and Lucasbooks policy on what is and isn't canon, include novelizations and screenplays as second teir canon. They come from the mind of Lucas and the writers in his employ. They back up what is in the films and expand on it. Some see the novelizations as superior, because they contain things that Lucas could never fit in the movie.
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