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Topic:
"The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
1/29 9:07am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
- Date Edited:
1/29 9:11am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Go-Mer-Tonic
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In that case, I think Jar-Jar was pure genius on Lucas' part. He takes the lesson of tolerance to a whole new level.
While a lot of people say he was too irritating, that's exactly why he works so well in teaching the lesson about not judging a book by it's cover.
A lesson you say you already learned a long time ago, while simultaneously insisting he is devoid of any significance beyond his use for slapstick comedy.
This interpretation of the dialog about how Jar-Jar's inclusion is demanded by "The Gods" is just one more layer to his intricate complexity and further indication that Lucas knew exactly what he was doing all along.
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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Strilo
Title: PT Manager
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
1/29 9:51am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
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Again, this is not about general Jar Jar sucks or Jar Jar was genius discussion. We have a thread for this. Please discuss the "Gods" theory by MisterVader or don't post. 
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
1/29 10:04am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
- Date Edited:
1/29 10:08am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Vortigern99
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Go-Mer, I cannot understand your assertion that Jar Jar is meant to teach adults, on the one hand, a lesson in tolerance, while for children he serves the role of comical fool.
These films are intended as morality tales for young people, not to remind grown men and women that 'tolerance of those different from you -- and who annoy you with their crap-stepping antics -- is a good thing'. I reiterate: If children already love and embrace him, there is no lesson, no moral teaching, to be learned.
[EDIT: NB: This is in response to a mythological reading of the character in general, as a sidebar related to the "Gods and children" topic at hand. If Jar Jar does indeed serve a mythopoeic function, I think it's important to show what functions he doesn't serve, as well.]
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
1/29 10:51am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
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Vortigern posted:
Go-Mer, I cannot understand your assertion that Jar Jar is meant to teach adults, on the one hand, a lesson in tolerance, while for children he serves the role of comical fool.
Agreed.
I mean this theory about the gods is absurd. Need I remind the thread that Lucas originally planned to have Jedi get their revenge... hence the posters that exist with "revenge of the jedi" as the title...
I can't see Lucas sitting there, sifting through 3 or 4 definitions until he gets to the right one... "Oh, I see... this is going to be inter-westing." 
I often have agreed with the author so I'm not bashing MisterVader, I'm just saying...
While certainly thought provoking, IMO... this thread reeks of being started out of boredom.
Lord knows, I've started a couple of those myself. 
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Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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DARTHCLANDESTINE
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
1/29 6:42pm
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
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this thread reeks of being started out of boredom.
Do not assume anything 
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The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope -- George Lucas
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
1/29 7:16pm
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
- Date Edited:
1/29 7:22pm (3 edits total)
Edited By:
Go-Mer-Tonic
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Vortigern99 posted:
Go-Mer, I cannot understand your assertion that Jar Jar is meant to teach adults, on the one hand, a lesson in tolerance, while for children he serves the role of comical fool.
These films are intended as morality tales for young people, not to remind grown men and women that 'tolerance of those different from you -- and who annoy you with their crap-stepping antics -- is a good thing'. I reiterate: If children already love and embrace him, there is no lesson, no moral teaching, to be learned.
[EDIT: NB: This is in response to a mythological reading of the character in general, as a sidebar related to the "Gods and children" topic at hand. If Jar Jar does indeed serve a mythopoeic function, I think it's important to show what functions he doesn't serve, as well.]
Well let's not split hairs here, but there is a difference between "grown" men and women and "mature" men and women.
The Frog/Fool Archetype is traditionally characterized by being endearing to children and repulsive to adults. Yoda serves a similar purpose in Empire, by being the odd creature that annoys Luke, but makes the kids in the audience laugh with his silly antics.
Jar-Jar is that kind of character taken to it's extreme.
All you have to do is look at the reactions people had to Jar-Jar to see that's exactly what Jar-Jar is there for.
The lesson is don't judge a book by it's cover, and one is never too old to learn that lesson.
I mean look at how many in this very thread insist tooth and nail that there was no purpose to Jar-Jar other than to serve as comic relief for the kids. If you take a purely technical gander at the script for TPM, it turns out that Jar-Jar ends up being the key to the hero's success.
1) He leads the Jedi to Untah Gunga.
2) It's because of him that Qui-Gon and company end up at Anakin's hovel during the sandstorm.
3) It's because of Jar-Jar's comments to Amidala that she arrives at the conclusion that she should make a stand for her people instead of hiding on Couruscant.
4) It's because of Jar-Jar that they are able to find the Gungans again after they had been driven from Untah Gunga.
I don't know how much more plainly I can put this, but while Jar-Jar was annoying and seemingly inane, he turns out to be incredibly important to the hero's success.
This whole allusion to "the gods" of old time theater is apt, because we are talking about a story that involves some of the highest ranking people in the galaxy, that deals with some fairly deep political issues, and Jar-Jar represents the simpleton in the audience. He is there to contrast the unemotional Jedi, he is there to contrast the overly diplomatic Queen Amidala who is also incredibly inflappable due to her strictly moderated outer appearance as the Queen.
Jar-Jar is one of the few characters in TPM that the regular Joe in the audience can relate to.
I personally think that a lot of the Jar-Jar hate stems from Lucas hitting a little too close to the mark.
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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Vortigern99
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Nov '00
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Date Posted:
1/29 8:53pm
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
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Go-Mer, I appreciate your clarification. I understand what you mean, and I agree with all you've said about Jar Jar's function in the machinery of the plot (as opposed to his symbolical meaning, which is what this discussion is about). The distinction here, as I see it, is that Yoda, in his "trickster" guise on Dagobah, is actually entertaining for the people -- not just the children -- in the audience. The characters in the movie may think he's irritating, but to us who are watching, including adults, Yoda's playful imp is amusing and endearing. Jar Jar is the opposite; he utterly fails to entertain almost anyone except the very young. In that sense, he may symbolically represent the "common person" in the audience, but he does not appeal to them.
You maintain that this is the intent of the "frog" archetype: to repulse. But this idea calls into question MisterVader's contention about "the gods" representing the "common man". In fact, the two theories -- yours and MV's -- contradict each other, since for you the "common man" is represented by Jar Jar, not by his gods. On the one hand, how can he simultaneously repulse the people he is supposed to symbolize, while on the other hand his gods are supposed to symbolize that same group of folks? It just doesn't add up.
-----signature-----
"I knew from the beginning I was not doing science fiction.
I was doing a space opera, a fantasy film, a mythological piece,
a fairy tale."--George Lucas
My "Vader's Origins" thread:
http://boards.theforce.net/Classic_Trilogy/b10002/8708417/p1
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
1/29 9:34pm
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
- Date Edited:
1/29 9:36pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Go-Mer-Tonic
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The reason some adults loved Yoda (I remember some who couldn't take him seriously because he was a muppet, not that there weren't a lot of adults who loved him), was because he was a lesson that was over almost as soon as it began.
Jar-Jar was that kind of character taken to the extreme. It takes effort to tolerate him. The things both Yoda and Jar-Jar do to annoy the characters around them could easily be described as "childish" behavior. Children don't see childish behavior as a bad thing. It isn't until people start to understand the dynamics of the human social structure that they start to distance themselves from that sort of behavior. It becomes something we all end up striving to grow out of.
The gods as I understand it (according to this thread's topic) have to do with the section of the audience that is simple-minded. The people who don't understand the more mature political themes. Jar-Jar is there for those people to relate to as a fellow simpleton.
The reason he repulses the older people in the audience is because he's childish. He represents the kind of behavior we all strive to grow out of.
It takes a great deal of maturity to tolerate childish behavior as an adult, whereas children have yet to understand the social ramification's of being childish.
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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
1/30 1:28am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
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Ahmad Best says in TPM DVD that "There has never been a pure character just for humor in SW."
Even the guy that played him who got.
1.direction from GL
2.told how to play him by GL
3.had his part written by GL says he's there only to get a few laughs.
People are reading way to much into him, bless his cotton socks.
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Time is a great teacher, pity it kills all of its students.
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
1/30 7:33am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
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What people? Just because Jar-Jar is there for comedic purposes doesn't negate his obvious mythological importance.
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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
1/30 7:49am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
- Date Edited:
1/30 7:53am (3 edits total)
Edited By:
DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
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You for one, its "just for humor " as quoted above and yes it does negate his mythological importance IMO .
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Time is a great teacher, pity it kills all of its students.
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
1/30 8:04am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
- Date Edited:
1/30 8:07am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Go-Mer-Tonic
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If you want to conclude that Jar-Jar serves no purpose beyond comic relief, I can't stop you.
Maybe I am wrong to look past the surface of these movies.
That said, it seems pretty obvious to me that all of the Star Wars movies work on deeper levels than what you can see just on the surface. To single out Jar-Jar as the one component that is devoid of deeper meaning seems unlikely, but then again, you have that definitive quote from Ahmed Best.
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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
1/30 8:18am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
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So you finally agree with me. Good old Ahmed, he knows more about the character than any of us.
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Time is a great teacher, pity it kills all of its students.
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
1/30 8:41am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
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Can the rest of us continue our delusional pursuit of meaning now?
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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
1/30 8:50am
Subject:
RE: "The Gods" and Jar Jar Binks.
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okee-day
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