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Topic:
Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/14 2:12pm
Subject:
Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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I know, I know, this has probably already been discussed. I've checked the thread index and there is no threads about this. So here we go:
In TPM, after our heroes arrive on Coruscant, Queen Amidala testifies to the Senate about the Trade Federation occupying Naboo. The representatves of the Trade Federation deny this, and the Chancellor himself has doubts.
Here's my question:
Why not call Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon in to testify to the Senate? They are Jedi, and are obviouly not supposed to take part in politics, so they would not be biased one way or another. They could clearly settle the debate by describing their expierences onboard the Federation ship and on board Naboo. The Jedi were attacked by the Trade Federation, and that should clearly call for action from the Senate. Considering they were sent by the Chancellor, they probably would have told him someting. But no word is heard from them.
This leads me to another question:
Why did Palpatine order the Jedi to be killed? They were on a diplomatic mission from the Chancellor. Why would he risk drawing attention to the situation by killing them? If they had been killed, surely more Jedi would have been sent to investigate. This would have probably led to the Senate taking action against the Trade Federation and ending the blockade. So why the risk? The only explanation I could think of was, "I will make it legal."
Is there any answer to these possible plot holes? Or did they just happen to because the script says so, and the story needed to be moved forward?
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Anakin_Darth
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
3/14 4:14pm
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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Palpatine's "I will make it legal" was referring to the Neimodians reaction to him telling them to 'begin landing their troops', because it would be such a sudden move, even before the "negotiations" took place.
Besides, Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan were too busy dealing with Anakin and his future to pay attention to senatorial meetings. Notice how in AOTC, Mace and Yoda only look on the Senate from afar....
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
3/14 4:44pm
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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I've never felt there was any real doubt in any of the sentators minds that Naboo was REALLY under invasion.. Politically, there were enough voting members in the pocket of the trade federation and sideous that they could put off an OFFICIAL recognition of the trouble no matter who testified. Its actually the only part of Sideous's scheme that makes sense to me. Basically he has enough secret political clout to make the administration look weak and then has the "sympathy vote" to get not-in-pocket senators to vote him in as chancellor...
As far as why sideous told the feds to kill the jedi, I think it was out of spite. He doesn't like Jedi very much. Most of them anyway!! If they had suceeded in killing the jedi, then two less meddling jedi. If they don't suceeed (as they didn't) then the jedi will bring with them a story that would, again, make the Chancellor look weak when Sideous made sure the senate sat on its hands...
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Prequel_Dreamer
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/14 4:46pm
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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Considering that they wanted to defer the investigation to a committe it's likely that the Jedi would have been blocked from testifying until the committe members could be elected. With Palpatine waiting in the wings that would have taken months if not years.
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Strilo
Title: PT Manager
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
3/14 5:36pm
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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Jango10 posted:
Why not call Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon in to testify to the Senate? They are Jedi, and are obviouly not supposed to take part in politics, so they would not be biased one way or another. They could clearly settle the debate by describing their expierences onboard the Federation ship and on board Naboo. The Jedi were attacked by the Trade Federation, and that should clearly call for action from the Senate. Considering they were sent by the Chancellor, they probably would have told him someting. But no word is heard from them.
Because they were sent IN SECRET by the Chancellor without the consent of the Senate. He cannot admit they were there or he will have a bigger scandal on his plate, thanks to the bureaucrats.
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
3/14 9:15pm
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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^^^^
and for the Jedi to agree to participate in such a secret plan shows how far from their original charter they had strayed. The Jedi were sworn to defend the Republic. Yet when civil war loomed, they were 'secretly dispatched' to Naboo, not a very republican act, to side with one faction involved in the civil conflict.
The Jedi were falling asleep, drugged away from their historically tried and true objectivity. They were clouded by the dark side, doomed to serve the whims of a Dark Lord of the Sith masquerading as the 'eventual' Chancellor of the Republic. The Sith Lord pulled their strings, and the Jedi followed his orders, furthering the cause of galactic chaos.
They entered into armed conflict, called the Clones into action, and served as generals during the Clone Wars -- something Lucas admits they were ill prepared to do.
The Jedi failed to adapt to a changing galaxy, while the Sith deftly managed to do so. Game. Set. Match -- Sith!
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
3/14 9:45pm
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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Strilo posted:
Jango10 posted:
Why not call Obi-Wan and Qui-Gon in to testify to the Senate? They are Jedi, and are obviouly not supposed to take part in politics, so they would not be biased one way or another. They could clearly settle the debate by describing their expierences onboard the Federation ship and on board Naboo. The Jedi were attacked by the Trade Federation, and that should clearly call for action from the Senate. Considering they were sent by the Chancellor, they probably would have told him someting. But no word is heard from them.
Because they were sent IN SECRET by the Chancellor without the consent of the Senate. He cannot admit they were there or he will have a bigger scandal on his plate, thanks to the bureaucrats.
Great answer, I totally forgot about them being sent in secret. I guess that solves it.
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
3/15 8:40am
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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I said this before.
It makes so sense what so ever. People say that the Jedi were sent in secret well what if they made the TF leave Naboo alone? They come back and tell the senate the the TF have gone and its all over.
Would the senate still have to send someone else to see if this was true? Then why send the Jedi at all?
Its a case of bad story telling I'm afraid.
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Prequel_Dreamer
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/15 9:21am
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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No it's not. It's a very real commentary on the way democracies can be twisted around by the checks and balances that are used to keep it running as a democracy in the first place. GL was basing this on historical precedents where democracies were corrupted to fascism simply by very smart men using the system against itself. It's one of the subtle and brilliants pieces of storytelling in the PT and much more sophisticated than the simple fairy tale structure of the OT.
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
3/15 10:05am
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
- Date Edited:
3/15 10:08am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
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Then why were the Jedi sent at all?
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Strilo
Title: PT Manager
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
3/15 10:17am
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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You ever hear of backdoor negotiations?
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#1 on iTunes Film Scores: Harry Potter "A Window to the Past"
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
3/15 10:26am
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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You ever hear of bad writing?
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PetraKenobi
Registered:
Feb '08
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Date Posted:
3/15 11:08am
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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personally I'd just chalk it up to the fact that GL is a horrible script-writer regarding the PT and that it was just some oversight that he didnt' think of.
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ShaneP
Registered:
Mar '01
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Date Posted:
3/15 7:20pm
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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If we go strictly by what's in the film, then strilo and prequel dreamer have answered the question. The Jedi were dispatched to settle the dispute by Valorum without the senate's stamp of approval.
I agree with SMELLY-FEET though. It does leave alot to be desired credibility-wise. It just makes the whole SW universe seem childish.
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Loco_for_Lucas
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
3/16 9:56am
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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I always thought the whole "secretly dispatched" line was just George's way of making the Jedi's mission sound more crucial than it initially may have been; ie, for dramatic effect. Why would sending Jedi be illegal or wrong? Part of their duties involves settling disputes. There was no reason for them to be sent in secretly. If it was so bad, Gunray could just narc on Valorum to the Senate as soon as it is revealed the diplomats are Jedi. The fact the Jedi needed to be disposed of shows they were not in the wrong in being there.
I seriously doubt George thought any further than it being a "nifty" way of zazzing up the intro.
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/16 12:04pm
Subject:
RE: Possible Plot Hole in TPM
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^^^^ I agree. If one of the jobs of the Jedi is to negotiate, why send them secretly ?
I would think it would be common place for the Chancellor to send Jedi to negotiate. And sending them "unannounced" would be within his powers. In fact, if the Chancellor didnt do it in this case, it would have been negligent.
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