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Topic:
Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
3/28 9:42am
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Wrong. The Grand Army would have pounded the Jedi no matter what.
They were loyal to the 'Office of the Supreme Chancellor' first and foremost.
The film clearly backs this up. Each Clone Commander readily replied to carry-out Palpatine's Order, the instant they were given the command. "It will be done mahlord."
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
3/28 9:44am
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
- Date Edited:
3/28 9:49am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
rumsmuggler
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SithStarSlayer posted:
Wrong. The Grand Army would have pounded the Jedi no matter what.
They were loyal to the 'Office of the Supreme Chancellor' first and foremost.
The film clearly backs this up. Each Clone Commander readily replied to carry-out Palpatine's Order, the instant they were given the command. "It will be done mahlord."
After Palps is dead the Chain of command falls back to the Jedi. None of the clones were there to witness what went down, so all their information on the matter would be second hand at best..
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
3/28 11:05am
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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I thought it was the Senate?
Bah, it doesn't matter.
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Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
3/28 12:11pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
- Date Edited:
3/28 12:12pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Rossa83
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SithStarSlayer posted:
Wrong. The Grand Army would have pounded the Jedi no matter what.
They were loyal to the 'Office of the Supreme Chancellor' first and foremost.
The film clearly backs this up. Each Clone Commander readily replied to carry-out Palpatine's Order, the instant they were given the command. "It will be done mahlord."
I think you're right! But wouldn't it be so that if Palpatine died, they would most likely remain loyal to the Republic, or the next supreme chancellor?
If not we would have a scenario where Yoda kills Sideous, walks out the hall and looks as thousand troopers going "oh crap"
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
3/28 12:13pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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SithStarSlayer posted:
I thought it was the Senate?
Bah, it doesn't matter.
Yeah, chain of command goes back to the Jedi, not the senate.
It's all good though.
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" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
3/28 12:29pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Perhaps they would have remained loyal to whoever the next Supreme Chancellor would have been, but who else other than Palpatine knew about Order 66? The Clones would have had no reason to wage war on the Jedi, and without Order 66 to bind them, there is no proof that had the Senate or next Supreme Chancellor ordered them go after the Jedi as assassins, that the Clones would have blindly followed those orders. Order 66 was Palpatine's failsafe. Without Palpatine to issue it, I doubt anyone else knew about it. With Palpatine dead, the Jedi are more or less safe from betrayal from the Clones.
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SoonerSean
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
3/28 2:53pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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On a similar vein... Mace tells Palpatine he's going to stand trial and in response to the "I am the Senate" line Mace says "Not yet.". Then later - to Anakin - he says that he controls the courts and the senate and is thus to dangerous to be left alive. Which is it?!?!?!
In the span of 5-10 minutes GL changes the very intent of what Mace said he wanted to do at the start of the confrontation and messes it up with the dialogue once Anakin arrives. All Mace had to say was "He killed three Jedi just now. He's too dangerous to be kept alive." Why negate the opening dialogue the way he did?
In the end... everything that happens had to happen to set up the OT... but I think it was done with too much haste or not enough thought at times.
In regards to the flow of command... I realize it's EU stuff... but in Republic Commando "True Colors" it states prior to chapter 5 that in the event the Supreme Chancellor is incapacitated the overall command of the GAR shall fall to the vice chair of the senate until a successor is identified. Or in the event the Supreme Chancellor is deemed unfit to issue orders the chief of the defense staff shall assume GAR command.
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SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
3/28 3:14pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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I was just about to say all that.
I also concur with the notion that things were a bit... compressed.
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Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
3/28 5:11pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Indeed, this all has me dreaming . . . .
Imagine a 'decompressed' version where Mace thinks things out, Palpatine is arrested and eventually stands trial in a major media event. The Jedi think they've won, but the corrupt members of the Senate block impeachment at the last minute. Palpatine issues order 66, then springs a personal ambush on Windu, who is trying to vacate Coruscant with other council members, making him pay for his transgressions.
Anakin is still forced to choose Sith or Jedi, but over a much longer period of time as events play out. Of course he ultimately drinks the Sith Kool Aid, pitting him against Padme and Kenobi, both of whom are already labeled as traitors (per Palpatine's orders).
Yoda returns to avenge Mace and Order 66, but this plays out as in the compressed version while Anakin and Kenobi duel on Mustafar. But in a twist, Padme cannot ignore her love for Anakin and ultimately turns to the dark side . . .
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DARTH-SMELLY-FEET
Registered:
Nov '07
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Date Posted:
3/29 10:01am
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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I think it would have made a difference cause Palps tells anakin "if the jedi are not all destroyed it will be civil war without end" this to me says if Mace told the senate some (not all of course) would have sided with the Jedi and wanted Palps head.
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KennethMorgan
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
3/29 3:31pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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SoonerSean posted:
On a similar vein... Mace tells Palpatine he's going to stand trial and in response to the "I am the Senate" line Mace says "Not yet.". Then later - to Anakin - he says that he controls the courts and the senate and is thus to dangerous to be left alive. Which is it?!?!?!
In the span of 5-10 minutes GL changes the very intent of what Mace said he wanted to do at the start of the confrontation and messes it up with the dialogue once Anakin arrives. All Mace had to say was "He killed three Jedi just now. He's too dangerous to be kept alive." Why negate the opening dialogue the way he did?
In the end... everything that happens had to happen to set up the OT... but I think it was done with too much haste or not enough thought at times.
I don't really go along with that idea as you've written it.
You have to remember that the situation has changed. At first, Mace was a senior Jedi Master and perhaps their best duelist. He was supported by three other Masters and was there to arrest a political leader on a charge of overstepping his authority. At that first point, Mace had the advantage and seemed cool and in complete control.
However, when Anakin arrives, it's different. Mace now realizes that he's up against a powerful Sith Lord who has easily killed the other Masters, darn nearly killed Mace himself and is still able to defend himself. Yes, Mace has the drop on Palpatine, but he still considers Anakin a wild card and, thus, untrustworthy. And there's still the chance that Palpatine could talk his way out of this at trial.
At that moment, Mace loses his cool and falls back on a basic emotional response: kill the Sith so-and-so now, before the situation falls apart completely. With his other options gone or questionable, Mace might very well fall prey to such a temptation. And that's exactly what Palpatine aiming for: to get the Jedi so utterly bamboozled that they'd abandon their principles and considerations and take rash action, leaving themselves open for a killing blow.
It all goes along with a running theme of the PT: evil can win out if good isn't very, very careful.
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rechedelphar
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/29 5:11pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Which is exactly what does happen, the Jedi abandon their "we are not soldiers" slogan when faced with the Clone Wars.
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SoonerSean
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
3/29 5:44pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
- Date Edited:
3/29 5:46pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
SoonerSean
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KM... you say that I have to realize that the situation has changed... which was my point.
Mace shows up and tells Palpatine he's under arrest, says the senate will decide his fate, and then says "Not yet" when Palps says he is the senate.
Later Mace tells Anakin "He controls the senate and the courts - he's too dangerous to stand trial (to be left alive)".
What I was trying to say is that nothing new has come to light except that Palpatine has proven to be a very worthy adversary indeed, i.e. killed three Jedi and fought Mace to a virtual standstill. If Mace thought he truly controlled the Senate and the Courts after their fight - surely he thought so before the fight when he said "The senate will decide your fate".
That's the point I was trying to make... that I didn't understand why Mace could trust the senate/courts when he walked into the Chancellor's chambers vs. not being able to trust them after their fight.
He probably had to respond to Anakin's demand that he stand trial with more than "He's too dangerous" which I thought could be addressed with "He's just killed three Jedi... he's too dangerous to stand trial". But maybe Mace says it the way he does b/c he doesn't care if he controls the senate or the courts, i.e. he just says that to get Anakin off his back.
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/29 7:08pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Mace may have realized that there was some truth in Palps' statement of "I am the Senate" after a few minutes during the duel. Remember, this is Mace, someone who is not good with quick initial decisions, ie the mouth runs before the brain thinks.
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KennethMorgan
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
3/29 10:13pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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SoonerSean posted:
KM... you say that I have to realize that the situation has changed... which was my point.
Mace shows up and tells Palpatine he's under arrest, says the senate will decide his fate, and then says "Not yet" when Palps says he is the senate.
Later Mace tells Anakin "He controls the senate and the courts - he's too dangerous to stand trial (to be left alive)".
What I was trying to say is that nothing new has come to light except that Palpatine has proven to be a very worthy adversary indeed, i.e. killed three Jedi and fought Mace to a virtual standstill. If Mace thought he truly controlled the Senate and the Courts after their fight - surely he thought so before the fight when he said "The senate will decide your fate".
That's the point I was trying to make... that I didn't understand why Mace could trust the senate/courts when he walked into the Chancellor's chambers vs. not being able to trust them after their fight.
He probably had to respond to Anakin's demand that he stand trial with more than "He's too dangerous" which I thought could be addressed with "He's just killed three Jedi... he's too dangerous to stand trial". But maybe Mace says it the way he does b/c he doesn't care if he controls the senate or the courts, i.e. he just says that to get Anakin off his back.
No, I figure he said it because that's what he was thinking all along, deep under the surface. But his Jedi composure, coupled with his confidence in his position at the beginning, allowed him to put such thoughts aide. However, when he lost the advantage and believed that everything was on the line right then and there, he (as I noted) lost his cool and let those inner feelings out.
Another example of Palpatine getting the Jedi to march to their own destruction.
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