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Topic:
Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
3/31 5:38pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Palpatine was one against four, and the four had their weapons drawn in a threatening manner.
And if Mace was there to arrest Palpatine, he blew it. Despite the death of three Jedi, he had the Chancellor cornered, and Anakin ready to support him if he went with the original arrest idea. Instead, he loses his cool and decides to kill the Chancellor without a trial, without Senate approval.
Mace, in the eyes of the law abiding Republic, is a traitor. He labels the Jedi as a traitorous order due to his ill conceived and impulsive actions. Mace Windu dies, and the order dies with him.
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/31 6:50pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Once Palpatine is dead, those members in the Senate have little reason to continue supporting him. The smart ones would realize that the Jedi would figure it all out, and would attempt to cover their own asses by switching sides. They would be transformed from willing accomplices, to unwitting accomplices. They can then argue that like the Jedi, they were tricked, they were manipulated by Palpatine, and with his death, they are finally free to "tell the truth" about it. IE, they would be politicians instead of puppets again. With Palpatine dead, the scene in which he accuses the Jedi, lies about their betrayal never happens. The public had not been swayed against the Jedi yet,
There are a couple of things wrong with that scenario.
1) The general public has only tolerated the super-being, arrogant, ivory tower Jedi for a millenia, they have never really loved or liked them. Would you, if you werent a Jedi ?
2) The Senators in question have been profiting from Palpatine, so they would need to cover their asses from that prespective too. For example Nute Gunray and all his supporters. The easiest way not to have investigations cast upon them is to cast blame elsewhere, say on the Jedi ??
Mace acted rashly and he chose poorly. He is every bit as responsible for the destruction of the Jedi as is Anakin -- perhaps more so, for he proves the Jedi are traitors and justifies the ensuing purge.
More so, because he also caused Anakin to turn.
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SoonerSean
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
3/31 7:12pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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How different would it have been if he had just taken Anakin along with him? So five Jedi enter the Chancellor's quarters with Mace and Anakin at the forefront.
Mace tells the Chancellor he's under arrest.
If Palpatine stands up and draws his lightsaber... any chance Anakin does anything but fight along side the Jedi to take him down?
The rush and the fact that they leave Anakin behind is so troubling. Here they go off to face the man who has single handedly run the entire war... killing hundreds of Jedi... millions of soldiers and civilians across the galaxy... while standing right in front of the Jedi without them even realizing who/what he is. I'd have personally signaled for every single Jedi to return to "Triple Zero" and bunkered down while working to bring his true identity to light for the citizens of the galaxy to see.
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LordVader66
Registered:
Aug '05
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Date Posted:
3/31 8:35pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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I've always said, after the Sith, Mace is the most responsible for the downfall of the Jedi. He underestimated the threat of Sidious, he didn't act rationally. For some reason he deeply distrusted Anakin, even after he single handly defeated Count Dooku. During the scene Anakin reveals Palpatine and Sidious are the same, Anakin didn't appear that shaken (though that could be poor acting and the RotS novel makes it clear Anakin is visibly shaken) Mace refuses to bring Anakin because he senses Anakin's conflicted, which, by Mace's guess, is that Anakin is conflicted about his friendship with the Chancellor. Not that Palpatine has a Sith secret to save his wife from death. So from Mace's POV, he refuses to bring Anakin because of his friendship with the Chancellor despite the fact that Anakin went ahead and revealed his indentity to Mace.
I'm not saying the same thing wouldn't have happened in the Chancellor's office, but Anakin deserved a shot.
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Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
3/31 8:45pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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voodoopuuduu posted:
There are a couple of things wrong with that scenario.
1) The general public has only tolerated the super-being, arrogant, ivory tower Jedi for a millenia, they have never really loved or liked them. Would you, if you werent a Jedi ?
2) The Senators in question have been profiting from Palpatine, so they would need to cover their asses from that prespective too. For example Nute Gunray and all his supporters. The easiest way not to have investigations cast upon them is to cast blame elsewhere, say on the Jedi ??
Mace acted rashly and he chose poorly. He is every bit as responsible for the destruction of the Jedi as is Anakin -- perhaps more so, for he proves the Jedi are traitors and justifies the ensuing purge.
More so, because he also caused Anakin to turn.
1) You have never read the novelizations for the PT, have you? They make it quite clear that to the general public, the Jedi, and especially Kenobi and Skywalker, were heroes, children idolized them, their faces were everywhere as the face of the Republic's fight against the "evil" Seperatists. They were Superstars.
2) HAVE BEEN, but with Palpatine dead, their continued profit from Palpatine would dry up, wouldn't? Palpatine would be dead, and therefore cannot continue to make them rich...thus, there is no reason not to betray Palpatine postmortem. Any benefit they had with their relationship to Palpatine ended as soon as Palpatine is killed. At that point, their association with him would have been a liability...Once Palpatine's corruption comes out, THEIR corruption comes out. The only way they have ANY shot at avoiding jail time would be to turn tail, and become a witness for the prosecution, as it were. They would be more interested in saving themselves, and the way to save themselves would be to distance themselves from Palpatine, not remain loyal. They would have to assume that everything would come out...so, why not try to salvage at least a little bit, and make it seem like Palpatine tricked them all? They would transform themselves, albeit through additional deceit on their part, from willing accomplice to victim, just like the Jedi. Like Italy, when it was part of the Nazi Axis, and then switched sides.
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It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
3/31 9:44pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
- Date Edited:
3/31 9:50pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
voodoopuuduu
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1) Yes, yes, during the Clones Wars they were war heros and enjoyed popularity. However, during the past millenium, with some exceptions of course, they were just barely tolerated by the general public. Thats why it was so easy for Palps to turn everyone against them.
2) The corrupt Senators would have more to gain by pinning everything on the Jedi rather than turning states evidence.
With a full investigation after Palps' death, surely this little line would have also come out:
MACE WiNDU: That could be a dangerous move ... the Jedi Council would have to take control of the Senate in order to secure a peaceful transition . . .
I sure that would have gone over just fine with the Senate, NOT. 
Do you really think the Senate would stand still and let the Jedi peacefully take control of the Senate ? I think not.
The Jedi were doomed following any of Mace's ideas. Yoda, after meditation, was their only hope.
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/1 4:18am
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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In the novelization, Mace DID contact the senate and tell them Palpatine was a Sith lord. That's how Palpatine knew to expect Mace and the others to arrest him.
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LemmingLord
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
4/1 5:21am
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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But in the movies he DIDN'T...
Which could explain why Palpatine goes: "You're here sooner than I expected" - it was as if he expected Mace to contact the senate and the Jedi, but he didn't. Perhaps Mace thought he was in a greater hurry than he really was...
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
4/1 10:20am
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Honestly I wonder sometimes if Palpatine had force powers at all.
Here's a guy with the biggest, most intricate conspiracy of informants going on... I'll bet his email box is always full of new messages...and then he just tells people, "I have forseeeeen it...." well DUH.
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LemmingLord
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voodoopuuduu
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
4/1 11:11am
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Yeah, just by using common sense and knowing his surroundings, which is lacking in the Jedi Order.
I also dont think he used the mind trick much. I mean, you could only use it maybe once or so and only if youre not going to see that person again. A mind tricked person is eventually going to say to himself, "why in the world did I say and do that ???  " 
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/1 4:26pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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LemmingLord posted:
In the novelization, Mace DID contact the senate and tell them Palpatine was a Sith lord. That's how Palpatine knew to expect Mace and the others to arrest him.
No, he contacted Yoda. The novel does not indicate that he contacted the Senate.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
4/1 5:11pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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I assume the conversation would go like this:
( mace dials the senate. Mas Amedda picks up.)
Mas Amedda: This is the office of Palpatine. This is Mas Ammeda, how may I help you?
Mace Windu: Yeah, Palpatine's the sith lord.
Mas Amedda: What?! ^%@!$ you, jedi! No wonder palpatine doesn't trust you. I'll see to it that he hears about this.
Basically, he had no evidence that palpatine had done anything wrong.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/1 5:20pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Mas seems to be in on the whole Sith thing anyway.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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SoonerSean
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
4/1 5:22pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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You've got the only two Jedi who have killed a Sith in the recent (and distant) memory of the Jedi Council... and neither of them goes off to help take down a Sith Lord who has hid in plain sight for the last 40 or more years... a dozen or so as Supreme Chancellor of the Republic... a man who at the start of the film Mace politely asks "Are you all right?".
Obi and Anakin took down Maul, Dooku, Grievous (and in the EU... Asajj Ventress - at least everyone thinks so - and Durge) and yet Mace doesn't take either one of them with him (or even consult with one of them) to take down Palpatine.
The book has some interesting tidbits not seen in the movie. When Mace and the others are meeting (when Cody announces that they have engaged Grievous), Yoda says that they must destroy Lord Sidious and Mace agrees. But then later... he goes in with the apparent intent of arresting Palpatine/Sidious.
Prior to Skywalker telling him that Palpatine is Sidious... Mace is talking with Yoda about going to see the Chancellor to tell him to cede his emergency powers back to the Senate. Yoda warns him... to anticipate having to face a Sith Lord who may be expecting his visit to Palpatine. Mace says four Jedi are going and intentionally says that Skywalked will not be one of them.
Mace then meets with Anakin and sees in him "He is the shatterpoint. Everything depended on him. Everything." (Yet he still makes him stay behind - because of the fear he senses in him). He then does contact Yoda and though no words are spoken on the page... the book says "For more than a decade, the Republic has been in the hands of the Sith. Now, together, blue ghost to blue ghost, they decide to take it back."
As they depart, Fisto says "I'd feel better if Yoda were here. Or even Kenobi". There's talk that amongst them that they will - MUST - suffice. But as they leave... Fisto says "I'd still feel better if Yoda were here..."
Not to get off subject... but the fight in the book is much better... everyone should read it. In the movie Palpatine slices up Tinn and Kolar without them even reacting. In the book... they don't have a chance to react (I don't want to spoil it - people really should read it.)
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
4/1 5:27pm
Subject:
RE: Why didnt Mace Windu contact the Senate and tell them that Palpatine was a Sith Lord?
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Mace must've sensed that Anakin was telling him the truth, or at least that Anakin believed he was telling Mace the truth, or else Mace would never have threateningly confronted the Chancellor as he and the posse did. Mace searched his feelings, and he knew what Anakin told him to be true.
But Windu so totally rushed to judgement. Unlike Palpatine and the Sith, who plodded methodically toward their final goal, Mace rushed to judgement without thinking through the possible results and their respective consequences. Windu, for whatever reason, could not and did not foresee what might transpire as a result of his impulsive, ill planned actions. Palpatine planned, Windu reacted -- the Sith was victorious, the Jedi labelled as traitors to the Republic -- plain and simple summary of events.
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~ Joseph Campbell
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