Jedi Council Forums - How to have kept Yoda wise in the PT.

Jedi Council Forums » Star Wars Films » The Prequel Trilogy »

Register | Login | Search | Help | New Boards | Harassment Policy | Rules of the JC | TOS | Markup Codes

Post Reply | Active Topic Notification | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 - Previous | ~~Next~~ | Reload

Author	Topic: How to have kept Yoda wise in the PT.
PMT99 Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 4/26 9:48am Subject: RE: How to have kept Yoda wise in the PT.
	LemmingLord posted: One thing that bumms me out from the novelezation of ROTS is Yoda admitting that the Jedi and he himself were too arogant and that's why the Jedi get creamed. I too would have liked to see other reasons why they failed. I think we already have. 3 other reasons why the Jedi and Yoda have failed and each one centers mostly around Anakin. 1)They didn't bother to get involved in Anakin's training, much less help Obi-wan with the training. 2) Even when Yoda gave that "let go of your fear" speech to Anakin, he didn't take his own advice and trained Anakin himself. He should've ignored what he had forseen in Anakin's future and relieved Obi-wan of his obligation to Anakin despite that he made a promise to Qui-Gon because Obi-wan was still too ill-equipped to take on an apprentice so early when he's just been given the title of Jedi Knight. Lastly 3), the Jedi failed to give Anakin any support system because they don't know how to relate to him. They've ignored his mental health and dismissed his problems (even when Yoda sensed Anakin in pain over his mother's death), that he felt alone and "exculuded" from the Jedi so he went to Palpatine for the support system. The Jedi's mistreatment of Anakin has pushed him away directly into the hands of the Sith.
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
SHAD0W-JEDI Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 4/26 1:53pm Subject: RE: How to have kept Yoda wise in the PT. - Date Edited: 4/26 1:58pm (2 edits total) Edited By: SHAD0W-JEDI
	Ah, more Jedi Bashing. I have said it before... years from now, when someone sits down to watch the PT and the CT cold, they won't see it as you folks do. I usually put "IMHO" in my posts, but where this is concerned, there is no need to. Because, uncontaminated by all the stuff GL and company have said in interviews, uncontaminated by all the EU stuff, all the novelizations, and such, they will judge the movies simply by what they see on the screen. And know what they will see? They will see heroic Jedi failing to stop the ultimate evil Sith Lord from exploiting the weaknesses of those without the courage to hold on to democracy. They will see that Sith Lord take power not through the failings of the Jedi, but through the failings of those who, fearing war, willingly concentrate power in a "benevolent" dictator. They will see a deeply flawed young man, with SOME good in him, succumb to greed, fear, self-pity, selfishness, envy, and a lust for control and vengeance. This young man will lead a life of dishonesty, betray his friends and colleagues (unto death), personally kill many, slaughter children, and choke his pregnant wife to near (or actual) death. He will willingly enslave himself to a monster and bring suffering to billions. They will see the monstrous Empire and its evil leader undone because the two brave survivors of the Knights rise to the occasion, rouse Luke from his "slumber" on Tatooine, and set him on the right path. They will see ObiWan and Yoda's student do what his teachers could not, turn Vader back from the Dark Side, and thus bring about the end of the Emperor. In short, they will see a saga in which the Jedi are....GASP!!!... the heroes. Plain and simple. And BTW...stoicism and detachment from things material do not make one uncaring, cold, or distant. Submission to a will greater than one's own - in the SW universe, to the Force! - gives one an innner peace, an acceptance that one is a piece of a larger whole, that can be misinterpreted as coldness... but it is worth noting that even the "Jedi rebel" QuiGonn exhibited these same traits in SPADES. This was NOT a source of Jedi failings, sorry... Shadow PS - Why are so many here so eager to blame everyone BUT Anakin for Anakin's failings? Anakin repeatedly CHOOSES to do wrong. He KNOWS certain actions are wrong, but he chooses them anyway. I understand that Anakin fans would like to lay all of this at the feet of ObiWan, Yoda and the Jedi.... but you know what guys, maybe the Council had it right from the start when they recognized Anakin was deeply damaged goods from square one. Yoda said he was full of fear and you know what, he sure WAS!
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Kendu_Knight Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 4/26 4:38pm Subject: RE: How to have kept Yoda wise in the PT. - Date Edited: 4/26 4:44pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Kendu_Knight
	I'm going to have to seriously disagree with you about Anakin's being "damaged goods" having been to blame. Luke was "damaged goods" as well, if you remember. At the time of Anakin's review by the Council in TPM, Anakin had not succumbed to greed, control, lust, etc. At this time, he had never heard of the Sith Lords (unless you accept EU), had only seen one once and probably wasn't sure as to what he was, and not days/weeks previously had thought Jedi to be some immortal beings. Sure, that last you could use as part of the neurosis that turned Anakin to the Dark Side in the first place, but that isn't my point. My point is, he was a boy. He was a young boy who had never heard the name Darth Vader, had no idea of greed or malice. We know what the future will bring, and the Jedi Council seemed to have a vague idea of it. But Qui-Gon's point, I think, is better than the Council's. The Council would have turned Anakin away because they feared something bad could happen in the future as a result of it. The Council was denying Anakin the chance to the life he was entitled to by the will of the Force (which the Force then corrected with the death of Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan's promise). They were forgetting entirely the will of Force-in-motion, of the living Force, of the present time itself. See, the problem with the Jedi seeing the future is that the future doesn't exist. Images seen and futures foretold in a state of prescience are not set in stone, they are the likely eventualities of particular threads of the present that are leading inevitably toward some end, and for that reason, some prophecies are fulfilled and some are not. Remember the Emperor in RotJ? The only reason he kept going with his plans is because of what the future told him. He was relying upon what was, according to the Force, that most likely eventuality, which was victory for Palpatine. However, he did not factor in the powerful variables of Luke, Leia, and their friends. So a different future came about, and Palpatine's vision failed. Qui-Gon was trying to tell the Council the very same thing in TPM. He understood that the future doesn't exist, only a memory of the past and the continuum of the present. He believed that Anakin was the Chosen One and did not want to deny the galaxy of its greatest hope simply because a bunch of self-important monks suspected something bad would happen because of it. However, the inevitable affectors of Anakin's destiny did lead him down a path to the dark side. These inevitabilities did present themselves in the forms of difficult choices, which Anakin did screw up. This is true. The galaxy did suffer for it. This is also true. But even if Anakin was denied training, Palpatine would have found another way to bring about the Empire without him, and the galaxy would still have suffered. And there's no telling how long it would have taken for the proper variables to come along and defeat Palpatine's fortune-telling in that scenario. But then, neither could Luke or Leia be expected. My point is, fortune-telling's a crap shoot. You can't give up on something because you're afraid you might fail. -----signature----- We rode on the winds of the rising storm We ran to the sounds of the thunder We danced among the lightning bolts And tore the world asunder. - Attributed to the Dragon Reborn (The Wheel of Time by Robert Jordan)
	Post Reply \| Quote Reply \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History

Pages: 1 | 2 | 3 - Previous | ~~Next~~ | Reload

Jedi Council Forums » Star Wars Films » The Prequel Trilogy »

© 2008 IGN Entertainment, Inc (6.08.17.2300, ASPNET7) 0.234