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Topic:
Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/2 12:04pm
Subject:
Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
- Date Edited:
5/2 12:05pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
EmeraldBlade
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I believe that many will think so as it seems take that *special little something* away from Sidious.
Further, it may be seen (by some) to undermine Vader. Most of us know that Vader could not use this technique because of his medical problems, yet Star Wars fans will inevitably pitch fighters, be it Jedi or Sith (or a nice combination of both – what a headache that can be), against each other, even in this movie section.
What say you on the issue of force lightning?
My personal position is neither here nor there in all honesty but I liked the idea of Sidious being able to best Vader purely because of the force lightning technique (and this was explicitly touched on in RoDV)
Note: Whilst Maul did not demonstrate force lightning in the movies I have always interpreted the situation as follows:
Most strong Sith can use the technique as long as they are not in Vader’s condition. Feel free to question me on my somewhat lazy assumption in this thread, though please make allowance for it being a Friday night in bonnie Scotland and I am relaxing. I do not intend this thread to turn into bona fide debate, but rather a simple exchange of ideas.
Cheers.
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
5/2 1:12pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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Just look at Dooku's ****-*** lightning and compare it to Sidious' throw-you-across the room stuff. It's like the difference between touching a 9-volt to your tongue and well, getting struck by lightning. Sure, they have the same skill, but Sidious' is waay beyond Dooku's in terms of power.
Lookit at easily Obi-Wan blocks Dooku's..then look at Mace and Yoda trying to block Sidious'. Completely different levels of mastery.
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/2 1:30pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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DarthBoba posted:
Just look at Dooku's ****-*** lightning and compare it to Sidious' throw-you-across the room stuff. It's like the difference between touching a 9-volt to your tongue and well, getting struck by lightning. Sure, they have the same skill, but Sidious' is waay beyond Dooku's in terms of power.
Lookit at easily Obi-Wan blocks Dooku's..then look at Mace and Yoda trying to block Sidious'. Completely different levels of mastery.
I agree. Interestingly enough some dispute this, though not I.
What concerns me is the affect it has on the OT Vader in two main ways.
1) He is the only movie Sith Lord that we know cannot use lightning (not to mention that every Tom Dick and Harry seems to have it in the EU) and 2) The implication that this technique can own Vader, even if it is not quite up to Darth Sidious standards.
I also still believe it cheapens the Emperor's display in ROTJ.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/2 1:37pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
- Date Edited:
5/2 1:39pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
rumsmuggler
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As long as Vader has his saber, he can block the force lightning, so it isn't much of a problem. Anyways, there are only a handful of people in the OT that can do force lightning.
I also still believe it cheapens the Emperor's display in ROTJ.
Why do you believe that?
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rechedelphar
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/2 1:51pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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Plo Koon "electric judgement" 
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/2 2:05pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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rumsmuggler posted:
As long as Vader has his saber, he can block the force lightning, so it isn't much of a problem. Anyways, there are only a handful of people in the OT that can do force lightning.
I also still believe it cheapens the Emperor's display in ROTJ.
Why do you believe that?
I think that it cheapens his display because in my eyes it gave him *that little special something*
What do I mean by this?
Simply that I thought it set him apart from the rest.
And I liked that.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/2 2:13pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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Gotcha.
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" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
5/2 2:14pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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I think the lightning was actually an idea that the ILM guys pushed on Lucas after the film had been shot. In the script and in the initial photography Dooku just threw Anakin across the room, and there was no "Obi Wan blocks Force lightning with his lightsaber," which has to be one of the stupidest things amongst a movie full of stupid things. And then when Yoda comes in, he just draws his saber, Dooku says something like "you're no match for me" and they start duelling. Rob Coleman, I think it was, felt that the image of Yoda going to town like the lovechild of Kermit the Frog and the Tazmanian Devil was too silly to swallow so they came up with that whole "battle of the wizards" bit where they first thrown objects and Force lightning around to lead into and build up to the duel. Which I think works quite well on its own, but takes away a massive amount of distinctiveness to the Emperor when you consider the larger storyline at hand.
So, in a sense, the lightning was sort of shoehorned in well after the film had been shot to cover up a percieved weakness elsewhere in the scene. I don't think it was given due thought process, personally.
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Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/2 2:54pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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I don't think it cheapens anything at all. Vader only can't do it because of the mechanical body parts, not that he was somehow a lesser Sith Lord. Had Obi-Wan not crippled him on Mustafar, he too would have used the Sith variant of lightning, and probably been able to do it stronger than Palpatine. Showing Dooku using it doesn't really diminish Vader, considering Anakin proved to be stronger than Dooku anyway...I also don't see how it cheapens Palpatine. Dooku using it is an obvious extention of the logic that allows Palpatine to do it. Palpatine had to learn to use it from his master, when he was an Apprentice, and in order for his master to know the technique, he would have had to have learned it from his master before him. Palpatine's usage of lightning is clearly the result of Sith Masters teaching it to their Sith Apprentices. Dooku was Palpatine's Apprentice, it makes sense he would have learned to use it. Especially considering how skilled Dooku was already in the force. Darth Maul may have been able to use it as well, but since he is never seen using it, it could be either because of lack of opportunity, or simply that lightning was a more advanced skill he hadn't learned yet. Either way, Lightning is something taught...Palpatine learned it, and then passed it on, just as his Master did.
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
5/2 2:56pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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I guess I never put as much value in the force lightning per se. I figured all of the Sith could use it, but it was just another tool to be used at the right time. Sidious could have cut Luke in half in an instant with his lightsaber, but he elected to do it the torturous way because he wanted Luke to have a painful death.
As for Vader, he could have perhaps blocked the lightning with his lightsaber, but again, the Emperor had many other means of taking out Vader if he wanted to (blowing up a ship he was on or whatever). The importance of their relationship was the interdependance they had on one another. Sidious was Vader's path to power and Vader was Sidious right arm that ensured all of his plans were carried out. Other players were well and good, but if there were problems, Vader was sent along to be the iron fist and rectify the problem. While both knew the other could work pointedly for their destruction, they both also knew that they needed one another throughout the OT. That might have changed down the line, but of course Anakin killed them both before they had a chance to cross that bridge.
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/2 6:20pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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Everyone in the star wars universe can use lightning. Darth Vader was the best at it, but why bother when you can choke someone? 
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GrandWarlord
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
5/3 1:08am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
- Date Edited:
5/3 1:09am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
GrandWarlord
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I admit it surprised me when I went to the theater to watch AOTC for the first time, and witnessed Dooku unleashing the lightning. It brought a "whoa" outloud from me. I do agree with it probably being better off that Palpatine should have been the only one who could use the lightning. It doesn't like...lessen my respect for Palpatines powers though. I wish they could have just stuck with Dooku being like a master swordsman, and he wouldn't have to use lightning at all in combat. BUT...if they had to choose another sith besides Palpatine to give the force lightning to, I'm glad it was Dooku.
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Eternity85
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
5/3 2:01am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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I never really liked it. But it could be worse. Lucas did many strange things in the PT, im surprised we did not see Jar Jar use sith lightning..
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/3 3:35am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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Yes.
It was not a terrible sin against his own work.
I just felt like being picky (and I have an obsession with the "Dooku Factor")
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/3 3:47am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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Darth_Davi posted:
I don't think it cheapens anything at all. Vader only can't do it because of the mechanical body parts, not that he was somehow a lesser Sith Lord.
I'll just take this snippet if you don't mind.
As I said, we know the deal with Vader but I often think of more casual Star Wars fans. Well, those and the insane ones that constantly pit the fighters against each other with as much seriousness as lung cancer. "Vader's saber would not save him completely... blah...blah...Etc"
I am actually a pretty recent Star Wars fan but am starting to realise that people I talk to in the "real world" (over rated place btw) think that the deal with Vader sucks quite badly.
And probably just because every Tom Dick and Harry does indeed have force lightning.
Perhaps it has more to do with the EU - I should probably take a look at the timing.
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Jango10
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
5/3 7:36am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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EmeraldBlade posted:
Darth_Davi posted:
I don't think it cheapens anything at all. Vader only can't do it because of the mechanical body parts, not that he was somehow a lesser Sith Lord.
I'll just take this snippet if you don't mind.
As I said, we know the deal with Vader but I often think of more casual Star Wars fans. Well, those and the insane ones that constantly pit the fighters against each other with as much seriousness as lung cancer. "Vader's saber would not save him completely... blah...blah...Etc"
I am actually a pretty recent Star Wars fan but am starting to realise that people I talk to in the "real world" (over rated place btw) think that the deal with Vader sucks quite badly.
And probably just because every Tom Dick and Harry does indeed have force lightning.
Perhaps it has more to do with the EU - I should probably take a look at the timing.
Casual Star Wars fans don't know anything about the EU. Heck, I don't know a lot about it.
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