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Topic:
Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/3 9:14am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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Some have played the KOTOR games though and go on to learn a bit more since I shove it in their faces 
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
5/3 12:23pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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In Dark Lord, Sidious seems confident that he can take out Vader with Force lightning, saber or no saber.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
5/3 4:28pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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But he was also confident that Vader would never return to the light side...
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"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must"
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/4 4:25am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
- Date Edited:
5/4 4:26am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
EmeraldBlade
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Vader as much as admitted that he could not take Sidious by his omission to act.
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darth-amedda
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
5/4 9:22am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
- Date Edited:
5/4 9:22am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
darth-amedda
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ok, difficult, but interesting question.
1. I would agree that this addition reduces effect of Palpy display in ROTJ, but as I understand intention of Lucas, that's the way its supposed to be. I think he wants to show that Emperor is not THAT powerful and he uses Luke's lack of Jedi experience and knowledge (in AOTC we finally discover that force lightning at least in some cases can be deflected by a well trained Jedi), as the Dark Side is based mostly on lies, manipulation and deception. It seems that Lucas in very constant in his strategy of building impressions and their following demistification. More less the same happens when we finally see bald face of a tired, breathless old man behind the mask of Darth Vader in ROTJ. Weren't you slightly disappointed, or at least surprised seeing real face of Anakin in 80s? It is very similar in a way to the situation from "Wizard of Oz", when Toto tips over a curtain in the throne room, revealing an average old man acting as powerful wizard. So Dark Side only appears to be so powerful, but big part of it is based on illusion. And to make it clear, that's the way Yoda explains Dooku's behaviour in the Jedi temple scene at the end of AOTC.
2. But on the other hand I would agree that from a certain point of view it is at least not the most fortunate addition. But not from perspective of plot and ROTJ, but rather regarding narrative strategy and ROTS. I mean that I would prefer if Force lighning had been saved for the Palpy's duels in ROTS as I guess it would increase their impact,making whole trilogy more climactic in structure (and it seems that confrontation of Palp and Mace in Ep3 would be enough to serve the purpose I discussed above). In AOTC it seems somehow too much for me, I would be satisfied if they stopped with throwing stones and pieces of metal (what rhymes with Bespin duel in ESB very well) and lightsabers fight.
So, in spite of the fact, that I mostly admire prequels, this was sth that I consider as rather unnecessary addition.
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"You know, I'm not known for my dialogue".
George Lucas 2003
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darth-amedda
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
5/4 9:58am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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Ok, one more addition from me : writing all the comments above I have just realized one more thing. And it makes me think even higher about Lucas now. Sorry if that's too obvious, but I didnt think about it in such way before.
Let me briefly explain.
It is quite widely accepted that in SW there are many references to Eastern philosophy. One of the most important concepts in Asian culture is combination of so called yin and yang (two opposing and, at the same time, complementary aspects of any phenomenon, mutual correlations creating unity of oppositions). At the same time in prequels there is quite strong emphasize on so-called balance of the Force.
And now, on the other hand, it seems that all Jedi-Sith duels in SW remain unsettled in way, in all cases each side loses and wins at the same time.
1. TPM - Maul is destroyed, but also Qui-Gon is killed, so both - Jedi and Sith - are defeated.
2. AOTC - Yoda is able to overthrow Dooku, but at the same time he has to rescue Obi and Ani, letting his enemy to escape. So again, in fact nobody wins this time.
3. ROTS - Mace beats Palpy, but because of Anakin's betrayal, he is finally killed. Ambiguous result again.
In Emperor-Yoda confrontation it is difficul to say, who wins. Apparently Yoda is not able to destroy Sidious, but on the other hand - he survives and manages to escape. Besides, in fact at the end of this duel they both fall simultaneously, so the fight remains inconclusive.
Obi-wan managed to hurt Anakin, but finally he wasn't able to destroy him, leaving him to burn on the bank of lava river and thus letting him - although probably not intenionally - to survive. As a result nobody wins decisively and both sides are ready to fight again.
4. ANH - Vader wins killing Obi-wan, but he loses as it turns out, that Obi already knows how to unite with Force after death.
5. ESB - On Bespin Luke is beaten by Vader, looses his hand and has to accept terrible truth, but he is able to reject Sith temptation and to escape from his dark father  .
6. ROTJ - Jedi apprentice Luke is defeated and humiliated by Sith master Palpatine, but evil Emperor is being destroyed by former Jedi Anakin Skywalker.
So as a result, it seems that through the whole saga Lucas somehow managed to make his duels more subtle and complex than just good wins/bad loses or simply opposite, but rather serving as representation of Force as unity of complementary oppositions. If we also remember about the fact that the wisest Jedi - Yoda and Obi-wan remain powerless - and Sith Emperor is finally killed by a Jedi renegate and the main villain - Anakin/Vader - it turns out, that SW saga has always been more ambiguous that in seems at the first look.
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"One of the sequels we are thinking of
is the young days of Ben Kenobi".
George Lucas 1977
"You know, I'm not known for my dialogue".
George Lucas 2003
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Droid
Registered:
Feb '00
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Date Posted:
5/5 5:27am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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I think that it would actually detract from Palpatine if he were the only Sith who was capable of using lightning. How do you think that it would look if the only Jedi in the galaxy who could use the force to move objects was Yoda? That would make it look like he was the leader of the Jedi Council because he was lucky enough to be born with a special ability.
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/5 10:24am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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That is what he does look like to me.
A being born with a greater ability than others around him.
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Alpha-Red
Registered:
Apr '04
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Date Posted:
5/6 1:57am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
- Date Edited:
5/6 2:00am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Alpha-Red
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I think that the lightning actually looks better coming from Dooku, especially in how casually he just flicks his wrist and blasts Anakin away. And besides, if we didn't see it in Episode II then seeing Palps do it later on would just feel like a rehash of the ROTJ scene.
I also found it incredibly cool how the lightning with all its mystical power can be repulsed by a "simple" technological construction.
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Mace-Wan_Winobi
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
5/6 1:58pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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I don't believe Dooku's lightning was unfortunate. It would have made more sense if it was seen from Maul, a life long Sith apprentice.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/6 4:15pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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I agree with that, but Maul seems to prefer physical combat over throwing lightning.
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" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
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Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
5/6 5:51pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
- Date Edited:
5/6 5:52pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
sith_rising
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I liked Dooku's lightning. It showed that he wasn't just a "Sight lite", or some sugar-free ex-Jedi who was playing badguy. He had crossed over to the Dark Side completely, even if he didn't look like a Maul devil or a Vader black knight. I was relatively spoiler-free for AOTC, so when he fired up his lightning I thought "whoa, he's like the Emperor". It also showed that he was closing in on Darth Sidious in terms of ability, so naturally he would be entertaining ideas about converting an apprentice of his own.
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
5/6 8:10pm
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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In fact, IIRC that's Lucas' stated purpose in having Dooku use lightning -- to show that he had gone over fully to the dark side. For some reason, this does not seem to be accepted by the "jedi can use lightning too" crowd.
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The world will look up and shout, "Save us." And I'll whisper: "No". - Rorschach
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Nichtganz
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
5/7 8:05am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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Dooku was more in control of hisself, many "fall" to the darkside, such as vader, Dooku learned the ways of the darkside as a personal choice.
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
5/8 4:38am
Subject:
RE: Dooku's force lightning. Was it an unfortunate addition?
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For me, Dooku's lightning showed that he had been under Sideous's teachings for some time, probably since sometime shortly after Episode I.
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LemmingLord
Take a Leap of Faith and Follow Me
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