| Author |
Topic:
Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/9 6:22pm
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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DarthGimpy posted:
I would guess Dooku but who's to say for sure what would happen in a single fight? No one would think Obi-Wan would defeat Darth Vader but he did, so it's possible Maul could win... but my money would be on Dooku.
What I want to see is a Star Wars video game that has a bonus section where you can have characters duel from throughout the Star Wars universe... and it would need to include people like Sidious, Yoda, Darth Vader in both suit and as Anakin, plus good Anakin, etc. Who wouldn't want to see something like Yoda and Mace versus Darth Sidious and Maul... or other combinations. It would be a huuuuuuge hit.
The ROTS game had a limited fighting game. I wish they would make a new version of Masters of Teras Kasi.
-----signature-----
" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/9 10:52pm
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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Dooku was not into the whole "Greater Anger = Greater Strength" thing, and he used Ventress as an example.
He claimed that Sidious had admitted to erring in his teaching of Maul.
Dooku believed that dispassion had its place in a fight, and I imagine that Sidious would agree.
All speculation of course.
Anyhow, I will go with Dooku.
He was one of the greatest swordsman that the Jedi had ever produced, and he had an awesome command of the force.
A more mature Maul may have stood a chance but he was cut down by Kenobi.
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Nichtganz
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
5/10 5:49am
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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He wasnt cutdown by kenobi, Kenobi got lucky that Maul was bored, and wanted to play around with him, otherwise the star wars universe would be much much diffrent.
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Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/10 8:53am
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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Kenobi didn't get lucky, he exploited a major character flaw within Maul. It is Darth Maul's fault that he died, he is the one whose cockiness made him taunt Kenobi, it was his shortsightedness that made him forget that Qui-Gon's lightsaber was still there. Kenobi, despite hanging on for dear life, still had the presence of mind to remember a detail like that, Maul, in his infinite stupidity, didn't. Maul brought about his own downfall by not finishing off Kenobi when he had the chance. You celebrate after the deed is done, not before. Count Dooku would have no problems exploiting the exact same aggressive cockiness as Kenobi did. He would leave Maul in pieces...
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
5/10 9:06am
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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Is this the same Dooku that was left in pieces because of the same cockiness you speak of? They both had the same character flaws, which puts them on equal footing.
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Sidious69
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
5/10 9:39am
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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Luck or not, Tyranus would not have allowed such to happen against an Obi-Wan who is more powerful than the Obi-Wan that Maul faced.
Luck is the residue of skill.
If Maul was powerful enough against the (padawan) Obiwan, then he could have laid waste Obi-Wan before luck ever happens.
Tyranus was indeed powerful enough against a (master) Obi-wan that luck was not even a factor anymore.
And yes, Maul was fighting Qui-gonn at the same time but Tyranus was fighting The Chosen One at the same time too.
So in short, Ep. 2 Tyranus would obliterate Ep. 1 Maul.
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Nichtganz
Registered:
Jul '07
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Date Posted:
5/10 9:42am
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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Maul was a mere apprentice, had he been a master, i would hate to see what he would do to dooku.
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Sidious69
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
5/10 9:47am
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
- Date Edited:
5/10 9:48am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Sidious69
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Well they are both SITH APPRENTICES technically but I see your point.
And Of course IF Maul had matured then it would be a differnt story.
IF Darth Vader did not become mechanical then he would be more powerful than Sidious.
But this is not the IF thread.
Ep. 1 Maul will lose to Tyranus.
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sith_rising
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
5/10 10:40am
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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Actually, this is the IF thread. And Dooku was the least-impressive Sith swordsman we saw in the films. Actually, Sidious was the least impressive. So, Force skill does not equal fighting superiority, which is why Maul killed Qui-Gon, and exactly why he could kill Dooku.
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r8hitman
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
5/10 10:54am
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
- Date Edited:
5/10 10:55am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
r8hitman
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I agree with some of what sith rising is saying.
Dooku was a "setback" in more ways than one.
Maul was an excellent sith lord.
Vader was an excellent sith lord.
Sidious had big plans for both of them, but they never fulfilled his plans.
Dooku was never wanted....Sidious never NEEDED him.....
he was never meant to take over after Sidious.
Dooku was merely brought in "off of the bench" because Sidious' plans hit a speed bump.
And knowing that Dooku was around long before Maul, and Sidious still decided to raise/train Maul tells me that Maul was probably more powerful than Dooku.
And I trust Sidious' judgement (at least when it comes to his apprentices) so seeing as how Maul is probably more powerful, I think I'm going to have to go with him.
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Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
5/10 12:21pm
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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Based on what in the films can you claim Maul was an "excellent" Sith Lord? He doesn't do anything other than get killed. Dooku, however, is made an integral part of Sidious's plans to take over the galaxy. His role as leader of the Seperatists is absolutely vital to Sidious's plans, whatever Darth Maul accomplished by killing a single Jedi Master before dying pales in comparison.
How can you call Dooku a setback? He was a pretrained Jedi Master, the best swordsman in the Order, incredibly wealthy as the Count of Seranno, his personality directly benefited Sidious's plans, in that his charm and grace was a valuable weapon in gaining support for the Seperatists, and unlike Maul, who was raised in the Dark side, Dooku knew exactly what the Jedi were all about, and deliberately chose to leave them. Dooku chose to become Sith, Maul had no choice. Perhaps Sidious never intended Dooku to ever replace him, but should something have happened, Dooku COULD have done so. There is no evidence that Maul was ever intended to take over for Sidious either...from the movies, all we have is a savage warrior. You are wrong, Sidious needed Dooku. He could not have had a better face of the opposition than Dooku. He clearly trusted Dooku with almost all of his plan (his use of Dooku as a test for Anakin not withstanding). He wouldn't have put his apprentice in such a high position if he didn't trust him. We don't know what Maul would have become, but from what we see, we don't see anything other than savage violence. Not what Sidious needs to fake a war.
Considering Dooku's background is never fully explained, how can we be sure that Sidious wasn't courting Dooku all along? We only assume that he started courting Dooku after Maul was killed, but we don't actually know that, do we? Do we know the exact timing that "Sifo Dyas" placed the order for the Clones? Surely if it was Dooku, and it occurred around the time of TPM, Sidious must have already turned him before, in order to trust him to set the stage for what was to come. It is entirely possible, even likely, that Dooku was already working for Sidious during the events of TPM. IE, before Maul's death. He isn't going quit the Jedi Order, murder Sifo Dyas, place the order for the Clones in his name, and become Sidious's new apprentice all in one day. He quit the Order around the time of TPM. I suggest he was already a secret Sith apprentice, and had been for a while.
Of course he kept Maul around. Some problems need a brutal solution, some need a more elegant one. He needed Maul as a distraction for the Jedi as he began to see his plan fulfilled. He needed Maul to occupy the Jedi, so reduce the chances of him being discovered. He needed Dooku however for something far more important. He needed a counterpart for the Seperatists. Dooku was his proxy for the other side.
As far as you trusting Sidious's judgment, Dooku was given a lot more power than Maul ever had. Dooku could have spoiled the entire thing with one comment to a Jedi Master, a former comrade. Dooku held Sidious's entire plan in his grasp. Maul certainly knew Sidious's identity too, but he was just a completely unknown tattooed Zabrak. He wasn't an extremely well respected former Jedi Master. Which one would have been far easier to believe, had they decided to betray their Master? Whose words would hold more believability? Sidious knew that Dooku betraying would be far more damaging than if Maul had. Yet, Dooku was an integral part of the entire plan. Sidious trusted Dooku to do what he needed.
Maul may have been a very strong duelist. We know Dooku was. We know Dooku manhandled both Kenobi and Skywalker, We know Dooku was an extremely powerful Force user, as he appeared to match Yoda move for move. Count Dooku was almost as powerful as Sidious. His battles with Kenobi and Skywalker, and then Yoda, bear this out. The Jedi comments about Dooku also show he was extremely powerful. The Jedi, even if they are saddened that he left the Order, remained in total respect for Dooku's skills. Sorry, but Dooku was stronger than Maul was.
He was stronger in the Force, a better swordsman, and far more experienced. Would Dooku have forgotten about Qui-Gon's lightsaber? Keep in mind, it took the Chosen one, the most powerful Force user in the galaxy, giving in to the Dark side, in order for him to lose. He didn't lose to a mere Padawan. No way Maul is going to beat him in a fight.
-----signature-----
What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon?
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide!
It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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EmeraldBlade
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
5/10 12:25pm
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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Nichtganz posted:
He wasnt cutdown by kenobi,
I'm afraid he was my friend - literally.
If getting chopped in half does not qualify as being "cut-down", then I don't want to know what does.
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Sidious69
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
5/10 1:15pm
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
- Date Edited:
5/10 1:19pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Sidious69
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Actually, this is the IF thread. And Dooku was the least-impressive Sith swordsman we saw in the films. Actually, Sidious was the least impressive. So, Force skill does not equal fighting superiority, which is why Maul killed Qui-Gon, and exactly why he could kill Dooku.
Sorry let me re-phrase that.
I was just stating that the other poster was saying IF Maul was not an apprentice but has grown to be a master then it would be a differnt story vs. Dooku.
BUT If we are just comparing Ep. 1 Maul vs. Ep. 2 Tyranus then hands down Dooku would obliterate Maul.
A more poweful Obi-wan was humiliated by Tyranus TWICE.
WHile Maul had a harder time with a less powerful Obi-Wan.
Choreography wise, Yes Maul is the best!!! That duel is my favorite ever.
Ray Park is impressive compared to Christopher Lee and Ian Mcdiarmid and their body doubles.
But story wise, even Nick Gillard has stated that Sidious was THAT GOOD.
He also said that Sidious is on the HIGHEST level of lightsaber swordsmanship along with Yoda and Vader who recently got up there.
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rumsmuggler
Registered:
Aug '00
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Date Posted:
5/10 4:32pm
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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Sidious69 posted:
Actually, this is the IF thread. And Dooku was the least-impressive Sith swordsman we saw in the films. Actually, Sidious was the least impressive. So, Force skill does not equal fighting superiority, which is why Maul killed Qui-Gon, and exactly why he could kill Dooku.
Sorry let me re-phrase that.
I was just stating that the other poster was saying IF Maul was not an apprentice but has grown to be a master then it would be a differnt story vs. Dooku.
BUT If we are just comparing Ep. 1 Maul vs. Ep. 2 Tyranus then hands down Dooku would obliterate Maul.
A more poweful Obi-wan was humiliated by Tyranus TWICE.
WHile Maul had a harder time with a less powerful Obi-Wan.
Choreography wise, Yes Maul is the best!!! That duel is my favorite ever.
Ray Park is impressive compared to Christopher Lee and Ian Mcdiarmid and their body doubles.
But story wise, even Nick Gillard has stated that Sidious was THAT GOOD.
He also said that Sidious is on the HIGHEST level of lightsaber swordsmanship along with Yoda, Mace, and Vader who recently got up there.
Fixed..
-----signature-----
" Conan, what's best in life?" " Crush your enemies, see them driven before you and hear the lamentations of the women."
W.W.L.D. What Would Lando Do
"Why is the rum always gone?"
Retcons = making the dumb stuff look even dumber.
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Dunedain1
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
5/11 3:12am
Subject:
RE: Darth Maul vs. Darth Tyranus
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An interesting contest.  While Darth Maul certainly is an able fighter, Count Dooku is one of the very finest dueling masters in the history of the Jedi Order. IIRC, Yoda was the one and only Jedi that Dooku never beat in lightsaber sparring in the Jedi temple, all the others he proved superior to. By the way, as far as Anakin goes, bear in mind that Dooku was trying to get Anakin to turn to the dark side and join the sith, and as such was going easy on him in that duel. He didn't want to kill Anakin unless it was necessary, he wanted to turn him. But in doing so, it gave Anakin a small chance, provided a narrow window of vulnerability that allowed Anakin to pull off a move that had very little chance of success. If Dooku wanted to kill Anakin, he would have been toast. Dooku beat Obi-Wan, one of the best lightsaber duelists in the Jedi Order, not once, but twice, an extremely impressive feat. And Obi-Wan left Anakin a dismembered wreck when they dueled.
In regards to the duel between Count Dooku and Darth Maul, I think Dooku would win almost certainly, but it would be a good match. If I had to guess how it would go, I'd say that it would be an intense battle with Maul pouring on a heavy attack, which Dooku would parry masterfully. Then Dooku would find an opening and counter to deliver a devastating strike. Maul is very capable, but Dooku is just such an elegant master tactician that it would be too much for Maul. It sure would be a fun duel to watch.
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