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Topic:
TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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BobaFrank
Registered:
Jul '01
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Date Posted:
6/1 8:29pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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I like what I like. Negative comments or opinions aren't going to change that. TPM is my favorite of the PT. Always will be. People can say what they want.
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
6/1 8:48pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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timmoishere posted:
TPM made tons of money not because everyone thought it was good, but because it was the first Star Wars movie in 16 years, and it was very cleverly marketed.
I personally agree with that statement all together. I saw TPM in theatres about...5 or 6 times. I would've been 10 years old, and I still sighed and rolled my eyes whenever a fart joke or a "yipeee!" was made.
I didn't like Jake Lyod, though I guess as a typical 10 year old girl I should've been fawning over him. I agree with who said that it wasn't his fault, but Lucas's writing. But George was so happy to finally be back with SW, he should've treated TPM like his baby.
And yes, people only went to see it because TPM was "the start of the saga" and the first SW movie out in almost 2 decades. I mean, people who weren't even that into star wars still went to see it because it was a cinematic event. Although I don't HATE TPM, and don't make a habit of bashing anything SW, it was just a big let down.
a big let down.
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Loco_for_Lucas
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
6/1 11:32pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
- Date Edited:
6/2 12:44pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Dark_Jedi_Kenobi
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I must say, time has certainly changed my perspective on this film, especially now that the Prequel Trilogy is complete. Now that all three movies are out, and I've seen them all, I look back on Phantom Menace, the hype leading up to it, and the responses, both good and bad, both in the media and my personal life.
That said, I feel that TPM is actually the best-made of the Prequels. You can tell time and effort went into that film like no other. We had fascinating sets. Jar Jar, as annoying as he may be, was at least an ambitious effort. It just seems it was taken for granted that the audience would "fall in love with him" and marvel at the idea of a fully CG character in an epic film. Personally, I think Peter Jackson achieved what Lucas was trying with Gollum, but that's an entirely different issue altogether.
For me, Phantom Menace represents an attempt to freshen up an institution of a franchise and realize some unfulfilled fantasies on Lucas' behalf. The man had some ambitious ideas. He had a prodigal child destined to become a messiah, he wanted to revolutionize special effects through the Star Wars vehicle, and more, all the while going back and having the time, money, and resources to incorporate themes he couldn't use in the Classic Trilogy. Having read his early drafts, I can see the exotic nature he wanted his films to exude.
To me, The Phantom Menace was that attempt. He was trying to take Star Wars in a whole new direction, and that direction was the original one he wanted back in the 70s. TPM really played up the Asian aspect, from the distinct Samurai stylings of the Jedi, to the Geisha-inspired themes for the Queen and the exotic attire of the Trade Federation, Lucas was trying to, in my opinion, hit up on the Kurosawa influence he had early on.
I could tell, as A New Hope developed, and went from "The Star Wars" to, well, "Star Wars," that the Asian element was toned down and gravitated more to the old Western call back. Sure, guns blasting left and right is good and all, but that wasn't what George originally envisioned. He didn't see worlds influenced by Asian aesthetic threatened by a cold dystopian force with fast Old West sensibilities. Now don't get me wrong, the film we got was amazing, beautifully executed, but for the man who made, I don't think that's what he envisioned. He wanted to tell the tale of space Samurai. The cold dystopian aspect remained, and the think-on-your-feet Western sensibility was there, but the Asian aspect wasn't played up as he would have wanted it to be. That's not to say he thought Star Wars was a bad film, but he probably had that lingering feeling. Empire brought it a little closer with a deeper understanding of the Jedi and their training.
For me, Phantom Menace was closer to what he would have liked the original film to be. A universe where cultures come together, blend in, and become something audiences hadn't seen before. Art and beauty coming under attack by greed and a mechanization.
That said, TPM might have worked better as a launch pad for a Sequel Trilogy. Where the Rebels defeated the Empire and the Galaxy flourished until greedy despots became out of hand and launch a new war. That would have served Lucas better where he can use what is understood of the Classic Trilogy and work from there.
He basically created a universe that was set to be destroyed and become what we already know. He had confines. He had to take what he started with this film and MAKE it work as a prequel. In a way, the confines that have plagued Star Wars were created by himself this time since he had the means and resources to do as he wished. He wasn't some kid out of film school who could be bossed around by studio execs. He was George "************'" Lucas at this point. He had blockbuster after blockbuster under his belt. What studio exec would tell him what to do? He was armed with one of the most powerful franchises, the most innovative special effects team, and the means to finance the film himself. He was at NO ONE'S disposal. He had the ability to do whatever he wanted, and instead he chose to paint himself into a corner.
In any case, I digress. Phantom Menace, to me, is an great film. It's a lousy Star Wars film, given it's placement in the canonical timeline, but as a stand-alone, it's pretty good. Like I said, it would have served better as a sequel set several years in the future, so it can freely use the established body of work without the confines of it becoming what we expect. I think it would have been exciting to see what Phantom Menace would have produced independent of story confines. Little things to free it up: make Sidious a "clone" of the Emperor trying to bring the Sith into power and rekindling a great war, "Anakin Skywalker" could have been a child born from the Force that the Jedi Order (established by Luke Skywalker centuries ago) don't know how to approach with a clouded future. There was so much potential with that story. Instead, Lucas chose to set it in a time where he had to force it to work in three episodes. The story had to "become" something instead of letting it flow.
TPM based so much of its logic on what we already know, why not just make it a sequel and let it go from there. As it is, Return of the Jedi left off with a feeling that things were getting better. Why not build on that and show things did INDEED get better, but is coming under fire again, and a new batch of heroes has to come in and right that wrong?
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
6/1 11:58pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
- Date Edited:
6/2 12:44pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Dark_Jedi_Kenobi
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Loco_for_Lucas posted:
That said, TPM might have worked better as a launch pad for a Sequel Trilogy. Where the Rebels defeated the Empire and the Galaxy flourished until greedy despots became out of hand and launch a new war. That would have served Lucas better where he can use what is understood of the Classic Trilogy and work from there.
He basically created a universe that was set to be destroyed and become what we already know. He had confines. He had to take what he started with this film and MAKE it work as a prequel. In a way, the confines that have plagued Star Wars were created by himself this time since he had the means and resources to do as he wished. He wasn't some kid out of film school who could be bossed around by studio execs. He was George "************'" Lucas at this point. He had blockbuster after blockbuster under his belt. What studio exec would tell him what to do? He was armed with one of the most powerful franchises, the most innovative special effects team, and the means to finance the film himself. He was at NO ONE'S disposal. He had the ability to do whatever he wanted, and instead he chose to paint himself into a corner.
I very much agree with this. Phantom Menace is a very personal film with real heart put into it, and I think that sincerity shines through and gives it a sort of charm lacking in the follow ups. AOTC on the other hand, I don't think Lucas ever really got around, it seemed more like he didn't know what to do and just went through the motions, and I think thats why to me that film just seems uninspired and lifeless. Phantom Menace, though, is pretty unique in the Star Wars films, and I think its clear that its less a Star Wars prequel and more its own thing--theres a reason why Lucas started with a film that, by his admission, only had 10% of the original prequel plot: it gave him the freedom to construct an original children's fantasy film, free from being tied down by being made to fit in with the previous. Sure, there's still ties mandated to the Star Wars franchise, but they are loose at best, if it didn't say "Star Wars" at the beginning and you changed around the names a bit, you'd be able to tell its a George Lucas film but not that its part of that franchise that ended with Return of the Jedi.
LocoforLucas posted:
In any case, I digress. Phantom Menace, to me, is an great film. It's a lousy Star Wars film, given it's placement in the canonical timeline, but as a stand-alone, it's pretty good.
This is precisely what I have always thought. I've always liked TPM because its a fun film, it has imagination and whimsey and a real sincerity to it. But, as a Star Wars film, its awful, its a terrible introduction to the franchise and a really botched job at a really interesting backstory, and the repercussions of this seriously screwed over the following two films as well. But--as just a stand-alone children's film, something you don't expect much from you just let yourself get carried away to another world for two hours...its pretty decent. Not great, but worth watching and appreciating. But to me, in retrospect, its a complete failure as Episode I of the Star Wars saga, and Episode II is so awful that I no longer watch it, so I'm basically left with Episode III, which I don't even think is all that terrific anyway, so effectively I don't really have a prequel trilogy, I have this one flawed prologue to the OT (ROTS) that I can watch once in a while, maybe. But Phantom Menace I do enjoy as a fun little children's film, much like Willow, it doesn't exactly hold up to high standards, but you just turn off your brain and appreciate the whimsical children's perspective its told from. A lot of people hated TPM when it came out but I really liked it--because it was just a stand-alone film in 1999, sort of; but all the defenders were saying to the naysayers "just wait till Episode II" and then "just wait till Episode III", that you would see how it fit in to everything and had a purpose, but for me it was the opposite, it began looking worse and worse because it became more clear how utterly it had failed as the first episode in the series, but as a movie on its own I feel it still holds up as a fun little adventure, so I very much appreciate the film as that, I can sort of ignore the connections to "Star Wars" and just enjoy it on its own merits, which aren't really great but they are entertaining enough, and very unique.
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I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
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battlewars
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
6/2 1:31am
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
- Date Edited:
6/2 1:51am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
battlewars
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The prequels would've been better had the human characters not been written to sound like the undead.
Lucas gave all the personalities to his CGI creatures, which sadly showed where his priorities lay.
BTW I HATED TPM even though I saw it 20 times in the theater.
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Strilo
Title: PT Manager
on reduced time
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
6/2 7:56am
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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This is not a thread for discussing the age-old loves and hates about TPM. It's directed at TPM fans and asks a very specific question. Let's keep on topic, shall we?
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
6/2 12:26pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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battlewars posted:
BTW I HATED TPM even though I saw it 20 times in the theater.
Well, that's odd.
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Jango_Fett21
Registered:
Apr '02
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Date Posted:
6/2 12:32pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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Something that helps me deal with negativity towards the prequels in general and TPM in particular is the knowledge that, statistically, those who are fans of the Prequels actually outnumber those who are not... it just seems like the other way around because the fans tend to be less outspoken - at least on the 'Net - than the 'haters'. I'm also secure enough in my opinion that negativity doesn't really bother me unless it crosses the line into 'you're an idiot for your opinion' territory (which I've seen happen before).
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EMPEROR_WINDU
Registered:
Nov '02
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Date Posted:
6/2 2:45pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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It's pretty easy for me to shut out the negativity. I've had a few incidents on the boards in the past with bashers that actually had a dedicated thread (in another forum) but now I'm a little more laid back. I believe that I understand what TPM was about and what it was supposed to be. I love the movie personally, and I know some people don't.
I just treat the issue the same as if someone told me that Star Wars itself isn't any good. If the person is up for an actual conversation, then we'll discuss it but if they just want to degrade me for my interests then they aren't worth listening to anymore.
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DRush76
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
6/2 3:42pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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I don't shut out the negativity of TPM any more than I shut out the negativity of the other 5 SW movies. It's there for all the world to see, but I still love TPM and the other 5 movies.
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Padmes_love_slave24
Registered:
Mar '03
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Date Posted:
6/2 7:41pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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Easy for me because I don’t regard many opinions other than my own, I am not trying to sound arrogant, but your feelings on a film should be only based on your experience and interpretation, not someone else’s. I don’t allow publications or the media to manipulate my opinion!
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Go-Mer-Tonic
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
6/2 8:51pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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To me there is no reason to defend the movie, because at the end of the day they are right about The Phantom Menace.
They didn't like it.
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"...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas
"At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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BigBoy29
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
6/2 10:35pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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Maul and Jinn are what saves the film ....
If you happen to think TPM needed saving.
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Han: "Hey remember, I won her fair and square."
Lando: "She was mine before she was yours, she was mine before she was yours ..."
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zombie
Registered:
Aug '99
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Date Posted:
6/2 10:53pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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Go-Mer-Tonic posted:
To me there is no reason to defend the movie, because at the end of the day they are right about The Phantom Menace.
They didn't like it.
Well said, Go-mer.
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I'll swallow your soul! --------------------------------- If you're gonna die, die with your boots on! -------------------------------- author of The Secret History of Star Wars http://secrethistoryofstarwars.com
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battlewars
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
6/3 7:55pm
Subject:
RE: TPM fans: How easy is it for you to "shut out" the negativity?
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
battlewars posted:
BTW I HATED TPM even though I saw it 20 times in the theater.
Well, that's odd.
It took me that long to get used to the awfulness and accept it.
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