| Author |
Topic:
"The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
DarthGimpy
Registered:
Nov '04
|
Date Posted:
7/6 6:43pm
Subject:
"The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
I was watching Revenge of the Sith a few days ago, and some stuff didn't make sense to me.
Firstly,
When Darth Sidious converses with General Grievous on Utapau, he's like, "The end of the war is near," and when Grevious protests that uh, the war isn't going so well right now, "Sidious is just like, oh I'll have a new apprentice soon, who'll be a lot more powerful."
I don't get it, how could a new apprentice turn the tide in a snap like that, and lead to victory? Unless he's so powerful that he can destroy world with a glare of his eyes, I don't see how Grievous could be fooled into thinking he wasn't going to end up betrayed. Perhaps there is something I'm missing? Was there some plan for CIS victory that I don't know of... because all we know of is that at this point of the Clone Wars, the CIS is mostly in retreat, and doesn't seem close to victory... at least that is my understanding.
Secondly,
After Viceroy Gunray and the Separatist Council arrive at Mustafar, they have a conference with Darth Sidious. Gunray says, "The plan has gone as you promised, my Lord." Sidious replies, "You have done well, Viceroy."
What plan is Gunray talking about? What has he done well? Was the plan just to retreat to Mustafar? Is that what went as promised? Is that how he did well? That makes ZERO sense... that would be like saying to someone, Congratulations for driving from work back to your house, you have done well, good plan. Have I missed something? Was the plan that all the Jedi would be destroyed? I just don't see what's been done well... the droid armies appear to be just about fully defeated, and Grievous is now dead, too. No one disputes that the Separatist leaders are imbeciles... is this why they thought every was hunky-dory and everything would be great once the new apprentice came?
Thanks in advance everyone...
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
JEDIGUNSHIP
Registered:
May '08
|
Date Posted:
7/6 8:10pm
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
Grievous was not betrayed; Obi-Wan killed him, not Sidious/apprentice. Also, Grievous was under the Sith's thumb; he followed whatever commands he was given.
Second, the script probably took one of Nute's best lines from TPM and put it in there. For what reason, I have no idea, but it would get the idea across that this is Nute Gunray, (still) Viceroy of the Trade Federation. Doing something like that is an easy way to get people to recognize the character.
-----signature-----
Blue and yellow make a green lightsaber. How do you get red out of blue?
Jedi Knight in the New Jedi Trials/ Commander-in-Chief of the Rebel Alliance
Former Commander of Phoenix Squadron
e-bro of prj1: An Honored Rebel
Join the SWC Alliance!
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lumiyas_Head
Registered:
Jul '07
|
Date Posted:
7/7 6:15am
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
- Date Edited:
7/7 6:16am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lumiyas_Head
|
What Sidious says to General Grievous is most likely him easing the General's tensions about loosing Count Dooku. Grievous was worried about what turn the war would take after Dooku's death, and Sidios reassures his thinking. He never lies to Grievous, he says Dooku's loss was necesary and that he would soon have a new, stronger apprentice. Not that, he's manipulating the Jedi Council into sending Kenobi and that his new apprentice will be the one to murder the Separatist Council.
And, I asked that question a long time ago and the answer I got was that the Viceroy was referring to the Clone Wars in general. Possibly even how the war was supposed to play out in its final days. Because, before Vader murders Gunray, he screams that the war is over. Obviously, Sidious has told him something because we all know Vader didn't spill it.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
|
Date Posted:
7/7 12:14pm
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
Well, technically the end of the war did come because of Darth Vader. He took out the Jedi, the clones were signed to Republic/Empire and The Seperatist leaders were destroyed.
Sidious never said which side would win, only that the end was comming.
I think the whole plan speak was about them retreating to Mustafar and "keeping a low profile". Sidious's plan, to get them all together on a remote planet so Vader could unleash the darkside on them.
-----signature-----
'You don't know the Power of the Darkside!'-Darth Vader
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
FutureEmperor
Registered:
Jul '98
|
Date Posted:
7/8 11:18pm
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
|
There's no questioning it. When your questions about basic plot and dialog and motivation for characters run into the hundreds, basically you have to just give up and realize that Lucas flubbed it all up.
-----signature-----
When the seas and mountains fall
And we come to end of days
In the dark I hear a call
Calling me there, I will go there
And back again
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
sorokseem
Registered:
Aug '08
|
Date Posted:
9/2 6:01am
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
_Sublime_Skywalker_ posted:
Well, technically the end of the war did come because of Darth Vader. He took out the Jedi, the clones were signed to Republic/Empire and The Seperatist leaders were destroyed.
Sidious never said which side would win, only that the end was comming.
I think the whole plan speak was about them retreating to Mustafar and "keeping a low profile". Sidious's plan, to get them all together on a remote planet so Vader could unleash the darkside on them.
Did Palp tell Vader where EXACTLY in Mustafar is the Separatist?
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Lumiyas_Head
Registered:
Jul '07
|
Date Posted:
9/2 6:15am
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
|
If memory serves me correctly, the Revenge of the Sith novel says Vader was given the security codes for the complex. So naturally, he probably was given the location of the Separatist base as well.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
|
Date Posted:
9/2 11:02am
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
JEDIGUNSHIP posted:
Grievous was not betrayed; Obi-Wan killed him, not Sidious/apprentice. Also, Grievous was under the Sith's thumb; he followed whatever commands he was given.
Ummm... how did the Jedi learn about the Droid General's whereabouts?
Palpatine served GG to the Jedi on a silver platter.
If that isn't betrayal, then I don't know what is. 
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
o[[]|[ooooooooooo]|[0]|[|]|[
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
GrandAdmiral_Frank
Registered:
Aug '03
|
Date Posted:
9/2 11:20am
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
It is betrayal. Grievous like the entire CIS were pawns set up into the grand scheme. Dooku was the lead of the CIS and Palpatine speaks of having a better apprentice. Should that ease anyhting? It didn't with Gunray as you see him protest at the meeting on Utapau. However from this point as far as they know Palpatine/Sidious has it covered and even if they have doubts they'll have to see for themselves about this new apprentice. Vader of course takes them out.
As for the plan. I think that either he was referring to the CW in general or Gunray and possibly some others were told that eventually the war would lose on their end but they would profit more.
-----signature-----
Member of the Han Solo and Chewbacca FanClub
Member of the TFF
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
|
Date Posted:
9/2 5:24pm
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
DarthGimpy posted:
I was watching Revenge of the Sith a few days ago, and some stuff didn't make sense to me.
Firstly,
When Darth Sidious converses with General Grievous on Utapau, he's like, "The end of the war is near," and when Grevious protests that uh, the war isn't going so well right now, "Sidious is just like, oh I'll have a new apprentice soon, who'll be a lot more powerful."
I don't get it, how could a new apprentice turn the tide in a snap like that, and lead to victory? Unless he's so powerful that he can destroy world with a glare of his eyes, I don't see how Grievous could be fooled into thinking he wasn't going to end up betrayed. Perhaps there is something I'm missing? Was there some plan for CIS victory that I don't know of... because all we know of is that at this point of the Clone Wars, the CIS is mostly in retreat, and doesn't seem close to victory... at least that is my understanding.
Secondly,
After Viceroy Gunray and the Separatist Council arrive at Mustafar, they have a conference with Darth Sidious. Gunray says, "The plan has gone as you promised, my Lord." Sidious replies, "You have done well, Viceroy."
What plan is Gunray talking about? What has he done well? Was the plan just to retreat to Mustafar? Is that what went as promised? Is that how he did well? That makes ZERO sense... that would be like saying to someone, Congratulations for driving from work back to your house, you have done well, good plan. Have I missed something? Was the plan that all the Jedi would be destroyed? I just don't see what's been done well... the droid armies appear to be just about fully defeated, and Grievous is now dead, too. No one disputes that the Separatist leaders are imbeciles... is this why they thought every was hunky-dory and everything would be great once the new apprentice came?
Thanks in advance everyone...
1. Sidious was implying that the END for Grievous was near. Of course, Grievous wouldn't know that.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
SaberSlash
Registered:
Apr '08
|
Date Posted:
9/2 9:09pm
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
GrandAdmiral_Frank posted:
It is betrayal. Grievous like the entire CIS were pawns set up into the grand scheme. Dooku was the lead of the CIS and Palpatine speaks of having a better apprentice. Should that ease anyhting? It didn't with Gunray as you see him protest at the meeting on Utapau. However from this point as far as they know Palpatine/Sidious has it covered and even if they have doubts they'll have to see for themselves about this new apprentice. Vader of course takes them out.
As for the plan. I think that either he was referring to the CW in general or Gunray and possibly some others were told that eventually the war would lose on their end but they would profit more.
I agree. Palpatine only cares about his lust for power and has no loyalty--the nature of the Sith. Grievous was an expendable part to his ultimate goal. The chessboard was lined up for the takeover (the Jedi were thinned, time for 66) and Grievous was no longer needed. The only part left for Grievous to play was to be a tool to separate Obi-wan and Anakin, so that Palpatine could isolate and turn Anakin completely w/o interference from Obi-wan.
As to Gunray, I didn't see more into other than the retreat was successful and the Separatists were now safer than they were before. Not to mention that Gunray feared Sidious and would not back talk him (see TPM interaction).
-----signature-----
Put your weapon away, I'm mean you no harm.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Alpha-Red
Registered:
Apr '04
|
Date Posted:
9/4 11:43am
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
|
Actually, it should have worked to Sidious's advantage to keep Grievous alive as long as possible. As long as Grievous is running amok, there's no reason for the Senate to revoke his emergency powers and he can delay that showdown with Mace Windu for a good while.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
|
Date Posted:
9/4 11:59am
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
except there comes a point, when you have all the chess pieces in place, where you have to call checkmate, rather than keep delaying. Palpatine knew that with the execution of Count Dooku, that Anakin Skywalker was finally ready for the Dark side pitch. Sidious had been working to get to this moment for ten years. He used the capture of Grievous as the final straw to push Anakin away from the Jedi. That whole line where he tells Anakin he would question the judgment of the Jedi Council if they didn't select Anakin to do it was quite deliberate, because he knew damn well they weren't going to send Anakin. SithStarSlayer is absolutely correct about the source of General Grievous' location...Sidious. General Grievous was nothing but a tool, a pawn in the game. Sidious knew that you give up pawns occasionally to accomplish a larger goal, in this case, the goal was the final corruption of Anakin Skywalker to the Dark side. Never forget, the entire Clone Wars was a sham, a ruse designed to give Palpatine power. General Grievous was a figurehead. His only power was that Sidious gave him to play his part.
Alpha-Red, I would argue that Sidious saw no further reason to delay the inevitable showdown with the Jedi. He had, for all intents and purposes, already won, so why delay the satisfaction of letting the Jedi know how completely they had been beaten?
-----signature-----
What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon?
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide!
It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
SithStarSlayer
Registered:
Oct '03
|
Date Posted:
9/4 12:17pm
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
Right, and I believe that Sidious wanted an ultimate showdown with the Jedi.
I bet he almost drooled on himself when he felt them approaching his office.
-----signature-----
Lucas didn't ruin my childhood, but he sure wrecked Vader's
Foolish men mistake transitory semblance for eternal fact
Practice makes perfect, so be careful what you practice
Tolerance is for people who lack moral conviction
o[[]|[ooooooooooo]|[0]|[|]|[
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Darth_Davi
Registered:
Jul '05
|
Date Posted:
9/4 12:48pm
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
|
exactly. Sidious has been patient his entire life...he must have been gleeful at the prospect of finally having a showdown with the Jedi, like a couple who decide to wait until their wedding night and are anxious to get it on...you simply can't realistically ask a guy to wait longer...Palpatine showed ridiculous amount of patience getting the pieces in place...to ask him to wait even more would be too much.
-----signature-----
What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon?
Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide!
It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
Alpha-Red
Registered:
Apr '04
|
Date Posted:
9/5 9:07am
Subject:
RE: "The end of the war is near..." and "You have done well, Viceroy."
|
|
Palpatine didn't look gleeful in the least bit, the Jedi at that point actually still held the upper hand. You saw how much rage he put into that lightsaber duel, he practically lost control of himself. It's obvious he's been holding it back for a long time, and even after waiting for so long he still this close from being shish-kabob'ed by the purple lightsaber. Those weren't good odds for Palpatine at all, and I don't think he's from Corellia.
|
|
|
Quote Reply |
Active Topic Notification |
Private Message |
Post History
|
