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Topic:
Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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GrandAdmiral_Frank
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
8/16 9:49am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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Anakin and Mace would have been cool. In fact a five hour Episode III would have sufficed for me.
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"Don't make me destroy you"-Darth Vader, The Empire Strikes Back
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
8/16 11:57am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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I don't think what Anakin showed against Dooku is enough to regard him as superior to Mace. Lucas has stated that if Anakin didn't get all messed up he would have become powerful enough to defeat Sideous. Now, Mace was powerful enough, as proven by his duel with the Sith. Moreover, it wouldn't make sense (or even less sense) to have Anakin kill Mace in a straight up duel; then have OBW, a (allegedly) clearly inferior fighter to Mace, defeat Anakin in a straight up duel. No, if Mace and Anakin duelled, the end for Mace would have to be facilitated by Sideous as Anakin just wasn't up for it - not at that point, dark-side or not, focused or not.
Sorry for disagreeing with yousa massster - I will go and do my pushups now massster - I'm up to three in a row!! 
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_Sublime_Skywalker_
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
8/16 12:22pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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It could go either way with Anakin vs Mace and then the Anakin vs Obi Wan. By the point he'd duel Mace, Anakin would be doing it for Padme, he'd be focused, motivated and in full gear. He wouldn't let his hate overtake him. However, thats the mistake he makes when he fights Obi Wan. He had already choked Padme by that time, and therefore, the darkside had already consumed him. Obi Wan was the only person standing in his way of achieving unlimited power and when he wasn't so easily defeated as he'd hoped Anakin got frustrated,reckless and just messy. He was so set on killing Obi Wan, that he forgot to defend himself.
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'You don't know the Power of the Darkside!'-Darth Vader
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SaberSlash
Registered:
Apr '08
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Date Posted:
8/17 10:22pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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I think GL wanted ROTS to show how strong Anakin had grown in power. The Dooku match emphasizes the point. Having Anakin duel Mace, while cool to see, takes some of the luster off the final duel with Obi-wan, especially, if the scene requires Palpatine to intervene to finish off Mace. To me, the only way the scene would work, is if Palpatine immediately pelted Mace with lightning while Anakin and Mace engaged in a brief duel. If the scene would had Mace put Anakin in a bind requiring Palpatine's intervention, it takes away the bada** appeal of Anakin building to the final duel.
Another repeating theme of ROTS is that arrogance can be your downfall. Anakin's skills did not lose to Obi-wan; his arrogance did. By the end of ROTS, Anakin has himself believing that his power is unstoppable. Putting a scene in ROTS where Anakin is "bested" by Mace just wouldn't fit imo, as it would detract from Anakin's all powerful smack talk to Padme right before the Obi-wan humbling.
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Put your weapon away, I'm mean you no harm.
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DarthDuckie
Registered:
Jan '04
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Date Posted:
8/18 1:17pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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Yep, Anakin could always talk a good game. What transpired on Mustafar vividly demonstrated how cheap talk can be though didn't it. I think that if Anakin had fought Mace, he would've been lucky to get out of it that well.
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Apathy is the glove into which evil slips its hand.
-Bodie Theone
A hero is a person who understands the responsibility
that comes with his freedom.
- Bob Dylan
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
8/19 4:58pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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^^^
Excellent!!! Brought to mind the classic Woody Allen film, "Sleeper," in which the frozen 20th Century Allen is resuscitated in a post-nuclear war 22nd Century. the world in ruled by a global tyrant, who is assassinated by a band of rebels. All that is left of the dictator is his nose, which the government intends to secretly clone - aka, the 'Aires Project.'
Had Mace dueled Vaderkin on Mustafar, I can just picture Sidious landing on Mustafar and pointing to Vaderkin's nose laying in the burning sand and yelling: "Anakin! Anakin!" Then ordering the Clones to get a medical capsule . . .
Fast forward to ROTJ, when Vaderkin lay dying in Luke's arms. The scene might go something like this:
VADER (a whisper)
Luke, help me take this mask off.
LUKE
But you'll die.
VADER
Nothing can stop that now. Just for once...let me smell you with my own nose.
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“It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.”
~ Joseph Campbell
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Rossa83
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
8/21 8:20am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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DarthDuckie posted:
Yep, Anakin could always talk a good game. What transpired on Mustafar vividly demonstrated how cheap talk can be though didn't it. I think that if Anakin had fought Mace, he would've been lucky to get out of it that well.
Very true. Many in here argue that when Anakin says something it must be true. "I'm more powerful than the Emperor" - yeah, I'm a better footballer than Christiano Ronaldo
If anything, his words only emphasise how disillusioned he was all things considered. What was he planning; that he should kill Sideous and rule the galaxy? How the heck would that transpire. Once again, that was his rash mind coming to conclusions before thinking things through.
However, he had just seen Sideous being overpowered by Mace, whom he might have thought himself superior too - can't see why he should, but then again, he was disillusioned.
In AOTC, Anakin says, somewhat joking, that he is as good as Yoda with a saber - something we are shown to be completely untrue. In ROTS we hear Anakin go on about being more powerful than Sideous. Now, fast forward to Anakin's duel with OBW and Yoda vs. Sideous. Which two combatants are more impressive in their respective duels: Anakin or Sideous - more so, which characters do you think Lucas intended to appear more powerful? I think the answer is obvious.
Anakin wasn't as powerful as Mace, Yoda or Sideous. The only chance he stood was that Mace would be worn out - but I couldn't see any signs of that. Mace and Sideous did have a rather short duel remember. Anakin was in shock, he was still unsure about his future and about who he sided with. Sure, he wanted to save Padme, but he was still conflicted - and at this point he just wasn't good enough.
Argue that Anakin was more impressive than Yoda against Dooku. I don't agree. Anakin went out of his way to kill him. And we can't be sure that Dooku was giving his 100%. Yoda on the other hand was trying to capture Dooku. Dooku was fighting for his life as well as that of the future Empire. Moreover, time the two duels (I haven't), and I'm sure that Anakin's wasn't much shorter than Yoda's saber duel. "Fought well you have, my old apprentice" don't tell me you think that Dooku would last many seconds after that one? 
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Azure_Wrath
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
8/23 8:18am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
- Date Edited:
8/23 8:18am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Azure_Wrath
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Mace vs. Palpatine and Anakin,
Palpatine: "Now you will feel the full power of the dark side."
Mace: "I am sick..and tired...of these **********in' Sith on this **********in' planet!"
But there again I'd like to see Mace duel in his Black Snake Moan look.
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Confutatis, Maledictis, Flammis Acribus Addictis.
Ipsa Scientia Potestas Est.
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
8/23 12:53pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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I think anakin would have a hard time defeating someone like Mace Windu. Yes, Anakin has power that is higher than even Yoda's, but we must remember that at the point in time in Palpatine's office, Anakin was clearly not in a good enough state to fight clearly. He was torn between doing his duty to the Jedi Order and stopping the sith threat, or keeping Palpatine alive to save his wife.
To add, Mace has more experience in dueling, and has Vaapad to back him up if things were to get too tough..
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
8/24 10:10am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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Mace could focus.
Anakin could not . . .
- Qui-Gon pulled his focus away from his mother
- his mother and Padme pulled his focus away from the Jedi order
- Palpatine exploited Anakin's J.A.D.D. (Jedi Attention Deficit Disorder) to pull him into the Dark Side
- later, in the OT, Luke pulls causes Vader to ultimately develop S.A.D.D. (Sith Attention Deficit Disorder) through his noble, very Padme-like actions
As noted previously, the ROTS Novel explains that Windu only understood what drove Anakin when Anakin elected to intervene in the battle and take Palpatine's side. Once Anakin acted, Windu knew Padme was driving his actions. Unfortunately, Anakin had rendered Windu defenseless, and Palpatine destroyed him.
Had Anakin merely blocked Mace's blow against Palpatine instead of unhanding him, Mace would have unzipped Anakin's psyche during the ensuing duel. Despite possessing immense force powers, Anakin would fared poorly in such a situation, requiring Palpatine's intervention to get the PT back on-track toward producing the helmeted OT Vader that had to appear by movie's end.
In fulfilling his true destiny, in doing that which he was meant to accomplish -- restoring balance to the force -- Anakin was finally focused.
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“It is by going down into the abyss that we recover the treasures of life. Where you stumble, there lies your treasure.”
~ Joseph Campbell
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xx_Anakin_xx
Registered:
Jan '08
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Date Posted:
8/29 9:46pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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Arawn_Fenn posted:
The street level was Mace Windu's splatterpoint.
. Too true. I still say that it would have been uber cool in the movie. But Anakin of course had to win, after all, there was the OT to come.
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"Only a Sith deals in absolutes. I'll do what I must"
"You will try"
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Sidious69
Registered:
May '04
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Date Posted:
8/30 10:01pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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Vader and Sidious would obliterate Mace.
Mace with 3 Jedi Masters were no match for Palpatine. You add Vader in the mix against a lone Mace Windu then Mace would lose big time.
As for Mace handing Palps his ass, I dont think so.
Mace beating Palps is like Grevious actually kidnapping Palpatine and those battle droids manhandling Palps on Grevious' ship.
They are all STAGED!!!
Palpatine was holding back!
Palps has to be on that position for Anakin to finally TURN.
Palps has been telling that the Jedi are evil and IF THEY DESTROY HIM no more PADME.
People tend to forget ANakin has turned Palps offer down.
Anakin was there to HELP Mace arrest Palpatine not HELP Palpatine DESTROY EVERY JEDI.
But Palps has PUT HIM in the position that he has to CHOOSE SUDDENLY.
His duel with Mace is AS STAGED as the CLONE WARS ITSELF.
Once Anakin finally chose, Sidious OBLITERATED MACE LIKE NOTHING!!
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MasterAnders
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
8/31 10:27am
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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I belive people here don't see how really strong and dangerous Anakin is. He's spent three years at the frontline hoaning his skills, gained alot of experience. His strength, speed, stamina, awerness and possibly his skills are greater than any other jedi/sith.
The ROTS book discribe this very well.
But Anakin mental side is not as good, and also his knowledge of the force is not as good as Mace, Yoda and Palps.
You can argue with this if it's going to give Mace an advantage against Anakin, but I doubt it.
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" I have abided by three laws in my life. Honor the gods, love your woman, and defend your country"
Hector: Prince of Troy
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LemmingLord
Title: PT Manager & CLUE Host
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
8/31 12:41pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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Any skilled tactitian should be able to wipe out the brash Anakin, even in ROTS. Unfortunately for Mace - he is not a skilled tactician. He seems like a brittish general from the so-called revolutionary war "ok - everyone get on the battlefield and we will announce our intention to destroy them... THEN when they are ready for us, we attack."
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LemmingLord
Take a Leap of Faith and Follow Me
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Darthbane2007
Registered:
Oct '07
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Date Posted:
8/31 1:32pm
Subject:
RE: Palpatine and Anakin vs. Mace - the missing duel?
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If Anakin's head wasn't as messed up as it was in ROTS, I could see him giving Mace and or Palpatine a run for their money. But Anakin's head has been filled with all this " You'll be the strongest Jedi Ever" Baloney from palpatine, as well as doubts from most of the Jedi, Anakin isn't thinking straight. If his mind was clear, I could easily see Mace being unable to best him, then Anakin giving him a dose of lightning, if he had learned the skill yet. Obi-Wan would have been dead within a minute, and Palpatine would be fearing his power as well.
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