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Author	Topic: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/27 7:50am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 6/27 7:51am (2 edits total) Edited By: Go-Mer-Tonic
	Jar-Jar grows as a character, certainly more than Chewie ever did. Jar-Jar shows he's a hero by taking on the responsibility of Bombad General. He is shown to be trying to encourage his fellow Gungans, and when the fight breaks out he is out there doing, only running when Tarpals calls for the retreat (after their shield was taken out). At the end when Tarpals says "No Giving Up", they were literally surrounded by battle droids. They had 2 choices, surrender, or be blasted into oblivion. Jar-Jar made the right choice, and you will notice it's not like Tarpals didn't give up right along with him. I can see how some didn't notice all of this (especially those who like to FF all of Jar-Jar's scenes), but Jar-Jar's growth isn't dependent on the audience admitting it exists. If people hate Jar-Jar so much that they can't admit he grew as a character, or even had a purpose in the narrative to begin with, I don't know what Lucas could have done for them. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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DarthApocalypse Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 6/27 9:46am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Jar-Jar grows as a character, certainly more than Chewie ever did. Debatable. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Jar-Jar shows he's a hero by taking on the responsibility of Bombad General. Not when he was forced into the role by Boss Nass. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: He is shown to be trying to encourage his fellow Gungans, When? How can he encourage them when he spends the whole battle hiding and running away? Go-Mer-Tonic posted: and when the fight breaks out he is out there doing No he isn't. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: only running when Tarpals calls for the retreat (after their shield was taken out). Expect he doesn't lead his troops in the retreat as a general should. Instead he hides under the poobaa wagon, then runs towards the enemy instead of away, meaning that Tarpals has to go chase him, getting them both captured. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: At the end when Tarpals says "No Giving Up", they were literally surrounded by battle droids. They had 2 choices, surrender, or be blasted into oblivion. Jar-Jar made the right choice, and you will notice it's not like Tarpals didn't give up right along with him. On this point I agree. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: I can see how some didn't notice all of this (especially those who like to FF all of Jar-Jar's scenes), but Jar-Jar's growth isn't dependent on the audience admitting it exists. Jar-Jar's growth is dependent upon the audience being able to see a quantifiable change in Jar-Jar's behavior. This change never happens and you know it. So you simply repeat the audience isn't getting it, in lieu of actual evidence of Jar-Jar's growth. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: If people hate Jar-Jar so much that they can't admit he grew as a character, or even had a purpose in the narrative to begin with, I don't know what Lucas could have done for them. Jar-Jar did have a purpose. He was comedy fodder that ruined most of the drama and tension of the movie. -----signature----- Don't take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive.
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 6/27 10:39am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	DarthApocalypse posted: Jar-Jar did have a purpose. He was comedy fodder that ruined most of the drama and tension of the movie. Jar Jar was a misaimed Barney. Lucas forgot that Star Wars fans at the time ranged from children all the way to people in their 40s.
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venepe Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 6/29 1:39pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	DarthApocalypse posted: Jar-Jar did have a purpose. He was comedy fodder that ruined most of the drama and tension of the movie. Jar Jar was a comedic character, yes. I don't think he ruined the dram and tension, though. My theory is that if Lucas were to give him a redeeming scene (a la Han coming back to help Luke in ANH) the audience will forgive and forget all the annoying bits. I will restate that I am one of the few that actually liked Jar Jar -----signature----- Triumph: "I don't regret picking on the Star Wars nerds but you have to feel a little sorry for them. I hope George Lucas CGIs them some girlfriends."
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Dark_Jedi_Kenobi Title: Manager: • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 6/29 1:48pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	I don't hate Jar Jar by any means, however I would have preferred a more serious tone to the films as a trilogy (which was emphasized in AOTC and most prominently in ROTS) which would have negated the need for a Jar Jar character.
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morpha2 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 6/29 2:34pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Jar-Jar grows as a character, certainly more than Chewie ever did. But Chewie never had as much screen time as Jar-Jar...the audience doesn't expect him to grow because he's utilized properly as a supporting/background character. Also, we see moments when Chewie has some moral authority (i.e. before leaving Yavin he growls something at Han, and Han responds "I know what I'm doing" as though Chewbacca just questioned his decision to desert the Rebels). Jar-Jar never has anything close to this kind of a moment. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: If people hate Jar-Jar so much that they can't admit he grew as a character, or even had a purpose in the narrative to begin with, I don't know what Lucas could have done for them. You seem to think that people have a Jar-Jar hating agenda. Most people will freely recognize that Jar-Jar had an intended purpose in the narrative: to provide comic relief. Others recognize that he had a larger filmmaking purpose for Lucas: creating a CGI main character. His purpose in the narrative was very plainly not to demonstrate some kind of heroic character arc for the audience to latch onto. Jar-Jar's "growth" that you've charted out over the past couple of pages is negligible at best. He's just along for the ride, mainly.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/29 3:17pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Some people hate Jar-Jar, I'm not saying you do. But ignoring his character growth doesn't render it negligible. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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venepe Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 6/29 5:48pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Go-Mer-Tonic posted: But ignoring his character growth doesn't render it negligible. His growth is minimal. TPM is a great movie, I love it, but I recognize its faults. It is not a perfect movie (neither are the rest of the films), but one of its faults is in how Jar Jar was dealt with. I believe he needed to grow more in order to be accepted by the audience. Even thoug I like Jar Jar, I will not defend its deficiencies. -----signature----- Triumph: "I don't regret picking on the Star Wars nerds but you have to feel a little sorry for them. I hope George Lucas CGIs them some girlfriends."
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 6/29 6:38pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Doesn't Jar Jar just accidentally become a war hero and then be given more important roles to reflect the improved status of the Gungans? I'm not sure his character develops all that much. He's hardly seen after TPM.
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DarthIktomi Registered: May '09	Date Posted: 6/29 7:11pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	venepe posted: Jar Jar was a comedic character, yes. I don't think he ruined the dram and tension, though. My theory is that if Lucas were to give him a redeeming scene (a la Han coming back to help Luke in ANH) the audience will forgive and forget all the annoying bits. Yeah, but Han never really attracted any hate. Tarkin got the title of "lamest villain ever", and the Ewoks were the Jar Jar equivalent.
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 6/29 7:25pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	From TPM doco it seemed pretty clear that Jar Jar was first and foremost supposed to be funny. The funniest character in SW according to Lucas. If you don't find him funny, as many didn't, there's not much more there I guess.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/29 8:20pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 6/29 8:21pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Go-Mer-Tonic
	His growth is contained within TPM, but it's there. He spends the whole movie expressing his fear and his desire to avoid the things he's afraid of, then at the end when he's made "Bombad General" (which scares him enough to make him faint) he ends up rising to the occasion and displaying bravery in the face of his fear. Jar-Jar is a comedic character, but he's also there to teach a lesson about judging a book by it's cover. They purposely portray him as annoyingly clumsey and hard to understand, and the point is the audience is supposed to realize that even though he may appear pointless on the surface, he actually ends up being integral to the heroes success (it's very similar to the lesson Luke learns in ESB when he loses patience with Yoda before realizing he's actually Yoda). Lucas wasn't trying to force people to accept him, the point was to accept him even though he appears annoying and worthless at first glance. If he had made it easier on us, the lesson would have been lost entirely, not just on the people who never realized his worth. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 6/29 8:25pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	But doesn't he just kind of fluke it in TPM? I don't remember any epiphany or major transformation. He seems to just carry on being scared and clumsy and in the process accidentally becomes a hero of sorts. I could be wrong. I haven't watched it for ages.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/29 9:26pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 6/29 9:26pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Go-Mer-Tonic
	He is still incredibly clumsy and ultimately all of his victories in battle are by happenstance, but the important thing is that he's out there trying. He could have not shown up for battle, he could have run at any time. But he presses on despite his fear, trying to instill confidence in his own troops. He only runs after the shield gets taken out and Tarpals calls for the retreat. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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DarthApocalypse Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 6/29 9:33pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	venepe posted: Jar Jar was a comedic character, yes. I don't think he ruined the dram and tension, though. My theory is that if Lucas were to give him a redeeming scene (a la Han coming back to help Luke in ANH) the audience will forgive and forget all the annoying bits. In my opinion, he does. The most glaring example is the Battle of Naboo, which is supposed show the Gungans bravely giving their lives in a feint so Padme can capture Gunray and the pilots can destroy the control ship. Instead it turns into a slapstick routine. Same with Tatooine. The heroes are trying to stay low and avoid detection, yet you have Jar-Jar being loud as possible and making an ass out of himself, eliminating any fear the audience might have for the heroes safety. The pattern repeats when Qui-Gon and Obi-Wan are on the submarine. Jar-Jar does nothing but take away from the movie. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: His growth is contained within TPM, but it's there. He spends the whole movie expressing his fear and his desire to avoid the things he's afraid of, then at the end when he's made "Bombad General" (which scares him enough to make him faint) he ends up rising to the occasion and displaying bravery in the face of his fear. That statement still remains false. Please take me through the battle and explain how Jar-Jar was being brave. Also explain when Jar-Jar made any attempt to avoid things that scared him. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Jar-Jar is a comedic character, but he's also there to teach a lesson about judging a book by it's cover. They purposely portray him as annoyingly clumsey and hard to understand, and the point is the audience is supposed to realize that even though he may appear pointless on the surface, he actually ends up being integral to the heroes success (it's very similar to the lesson Luke learns in ESB when he loses patience with Yoda before realizing he's actually Yoda). Except he never proves he's anything but pointless. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Lucas wasn't trying to force people to accept him, the point was to accept him even though he appears annoying and worthless at first glance. If he had made it easier on us, the lesson would have been lost entirely, not just on the people who never realized his worth. Still waiting for evidence of this worth. -----signature----- Don't take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive.
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