Jedi Council Forums - Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?

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Author	Topic: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 9:26am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Jar-Jar was afraid of everything, especially of being a Bombad General (the very idea made him faint), yet he rose to the occasion and did his part despite his fear. He only ran and hid after Tarpals called the retreat. Up until then, he was out there doing. Try watching the movie without FF Jar-Jar's scenes and you will see what I'm talking about. You can't just maintain that all he did was run and hide when that's obviously not the case. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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DarthApocalypse Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 6/30 9:43am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 6/30 9:46am (2 edits total) Edited By: DarthApocalypse
	Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Jar-Jar was afraid of everything, especially of being a Bombad General (the very idea made him faint), yet he rose to the occasion and did his part despite his fear. He only ran and hid after Tarpals called the retreat. Up until then, he was out there doing. Untrue. When the droid fell on his back he was on the ground, with his hands over his head doing nothing. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Try watching the movie without FF Jar-Jar's scenes and you will see what I'm talking about. Try responding to all my points instead of picking a few. How does Jar-Jar behavior's on Tatooine fit with someone who is scared? When were there Gungans running before the battle? Also explain where Jar-Jar was going to go if he wanted to run before the battle. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: You can't just maintain that all he did was run and hide when that's obviously not the case. He falls of his mount, almost electrocutes his own troops, hides on the ground (at which point the droid falls on his back and in fear he takes out a few), fails to lead the retreat, hides under the poobaa wagon, then opens it, nearly killing himself and then gets Tarpals captured when he has to chase him. That pretty much sums up what Jar-Jar did during the battle. If you have an alternate series of events I'd love to hear it. -----signature----- Don't take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 9:57am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Seriously, try watching the scenes with Jar-Jar in the battle, I don't know how many different ways I can explain it, but it's all right there in the movie. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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DarthApocalypse Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 6/30 10:03am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	I already have. Multiple times. Two things: 1. What is wrong with the series of events I've posted? I wrote exactly what happened and it clearly showed Jar-Jar was not being a brave leader. 2. Obviously you need to watch the movie since your claim of Gungans fleeing before the battle never happens. -----signature----- Don't take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 10:26am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	I never claimed the Gungans fled before the battle, I was saying Jar-Jar didn't have to show up, and he could have run at any time. You ask where he would have gone? Anywhere but where the battle was taking place. I watched these scenes last night as I transcribed his heroic actions. Yes he falls of his mount, yes he fails at slinging a boomer, yes he's incredibly clumsy and most of his victories in the battle were pure luck. My point is that he did his best to lead his troops into battle, he purposefully picked up a sling in an attempt to fight the droids, and when attacked by half a battle droid he turned around and stomped on him, inadvertently taking out several battle droids and a droideka in the process. But he didn't run away or hide until -after- Tarpals called for the retreat. At that point, all the Gungans were running away. It was while retreating that Jar-Jar tried to hide under the cart. Still, while he was hanging on to the tank, when Tarpals tossed him a boomer, he tried to catch it and use it. Sure he was clumsy again, sure his hitting the tank driver was happenstance, the point is, he was out there doing. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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ShaneP Title: Lucasfilm Projects Gremlin(Manager ) Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 6/30 10:40am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	That's actually a good point. Jar jar, if he was fighting in a war, wouldn't be considered AWOL. He didn't leave the fight until a retreat was sounded. Was he a doofus and a clumsy fool during the battle? Yes, he was. Did he flee at the first sound of battle and hide under a boomer cart? No, he did not. So while critics(one of them might even be me) can say he was clumsy and spaztastic during the battle, he was not AWOL and a deserter. -----signature----- Keep Your Words Sweet. You May Have To Eat Them.
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DarthApocalypse Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 6/30 10:57am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Go-Mer-Tonic posted: I never claimed the Gungans fled before the battle Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Once the battle started, he could have easily run away (like many other Gungans are shown to do) ??? Go-Mer-Tonic posted: I was saying Jar-Jar didn't have to show up, and he could have run at any time But as I said before, you are acting as if the Gungans were simply going to just let him leave. What makes you think they would let a person who has knowledge of their battle plans leave right before a major battle? Go-Mer-Tonic posted: You ask where he would have gone? Anywhere but where the battle was taking place. But once again, how so? Do you think the Gungans are just going to let their general desert right before combat? Go-Mer-Tonic posted: I watched these scenes last night as I transcribed his heroic actions. Then maybe you can explain why Jar-Jar continued to touch everything against Qui-Gon's orders. If he was so scared why would he do this? Go-Mer-Tonic posted: My point is that he did his best to lead his troops into battle Watch the movie and tell me what Jar-Jar is doing when the droid falls on him. Also explain how he can lead his troops in a retreat when he is hiding under the wagon. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: he purposefully picked up a sling in an attempt to fight the droids I never disputed this. All I said was in the process he nearly killed his own men. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: and when attacked by half a battle droid he turned around and stomped on him, inadvertently taking out several battle droids and a droideka in the process. Also something I never disputed. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: But he didn't run away or hide until -after- Tarpals called for the retreat. Again, tell me what Jar-Jar was doing when the droid fell on his back. It sure looks like hiding to me. [quote=Go-Mer-Tonic]At that point, all the Gungans were running away. It was while retreating that Jar-Jar tried to hide under the cart.[/quote] Which is my point. He's a general. Generals lead in victory or in defeat. Jar-Jar did not do this. [quote=Go-Mer-Tonic]Still, while he was hanging on to the tank, when Tarpals tossed him a boomer, he tried to catch it and use it.[/quote] Again something I never disputed. What I said is that should of never happened in the first place, because Jar-Jar should be in front directing their withdrawal. Instead he runs towards the droids, meaning Tarpals has to chase him, getting them both captured. Now they're minus two generals and the retreat becomes severely disorganized. [quote=Go-Mer-Tonic]Sure he was clumsy again, sure his hitting the tank driver was happenstance, the point is, he was out there doing.[/quote] I don't consider accidentally killing a few droids in the process of hiding or running "out there doing". Nor do I consider it particularly heroic. -----signature----- Don't take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive.
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ShaneP Title: Lucasfilm Projects Gremlin(Manager ) Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 6/30 11:05am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 6/30 11:06am (1 edits total) Edited By: ShaneP
	Again, tell me what Jar-Jar was doing when the droid fell on his back. It sure looks like hiding to me. Yeah because cowards and deserters consider hiding in the thick of hand to hand combat a great safe spot. -----signature----- Keep Your Words Sweet. You May Have To Eat Them.
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DarthApocalypse Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 6/30 11:09am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	It's easier to fall down hide on the ground (where an enemy might think you are a corpse) than it is to run through said hand-to-hand combat, where you easily can be cut down. Also there was blasterfire in that area, not just melee combat. -----signature----- Don't take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 12:08pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	When I said like many other Gungans are shown to do, I was intending to be referencing when they were all running away after Tarpals called for the retreat. I could have worded that better, I see how it was confusing. As far as the Gungan's letting him run away, what were they going to do? Shoot him? The worst that would have happened is he would have not been able to go back to the Gungan society, which is where he starts the movie. He might have been lonely, but he was perfectly capable of fending for himself. When talking to Padme on the ship, he describes his morning as "Preetty Okeday", he was eating his breakfast just fine when the droids showed up. Why did Jar-Jar keep touching things after Qui-Gon told him not to? Because he was curious about things. Maybe he has ADD or something. That doesn't make him fearless, it just makes him annoying. When the droid jumped on Jar-Jar's back, he was ducking. As I keep saying he was scared, but he didn't run away. When he ran towards the droids, it was to get away from the giant boombers he unleashed, which incidentally took out at least one tank. The reason he was "out there doing" was because he was -endeavoring- to fight the droids. Even though his success was accidental, he was -doing- his best. What makes him a hero is that he was doing his best -despite- his fear. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Darth_Laudrup Title: Host: PT Trivia Challenge Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 6/30 1:41pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	It feels like this debate is going nowhere. -----signature----- I love Ellen Page: 5' 1" / 1.55 m tall and very very sexy.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 1:46pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	It's hard to say what went wrong when something went so right. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Darth_Laudrup Title: Host: PT Trivia Challenge Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 6/30 1:59pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Whatever , but maybe the Mods should lock this thread before too long. It has turned into a debate where none of the parties want to give in, so it seems pointless to continue. -----signature----- I love Ellen Page: 5' 1" / 1.55 m tall and very very sexy.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 2:14pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	It doesn't need to be locked, this debate will last long past our lifetimes. Maybe you shouldn't come in here if the discussion bothers you so much. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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morpha2 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 6/30 2:28pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	ShaneP posted: That's actually a good point. Jar jar, if he was fighting in a war, wouldn't be considered AWOL. He didn't leave the fight until a retreat was sounded. Was he a doofus and a clumsy fool during the battle? Yes, he was. Did he flee at the first sound of battle and hide under a boomer cart? No, he did not. So while critics(one of them might even be me) can say he was clumsy and spaztastic during the battle, he was not AWOL and a deserter. Okay, but does "not AWOL" and "not a deserter" equate to being "heroic"? It seems to me that not running from battle is the very least a soldier can do. Jar-Jar showing up for the war does not prove that he's grown as a character because it's not the first dangerous thing he's done in the film by a longshot. He's already returned to the Gungan city even though it almost surely meant execution, traveled through the planet core where he was nearly devoured several times, left the planet where he was nearly blown up in the ship, been exposed to danger on Tatooine, etc. On the field of battle, he acquitted himself in exactly the same way he did in all of those previous situations: by acting like a fool. Therefore, I think it's safe to say that he showed no discernible growth.
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