Jedi Council Forums - Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?

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Author	Topic: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 2:49pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Well he didn't grow less clumsy of course, but in all those other situations, he was afraid to the point of being petrified. When the monsters were outside the bongo, all he did was lose it. Qui-Gon had to put him into a Jedi sleep so they could handle the situation. When he was afraid on Tattoine, he expressed a desire to not press on because he was afraid of the locals, and thought he would be crunched. The big difference about the battle with the droids is he rose to the occasion and did his best to engage the droids in battle. He wasn't saying "Let's get out of here" he wasn't trying to get away from it, he faced his fears head on. That's how he grew into a more heroic character. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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morpha2 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 6/30 3:06pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	I can't agree with that assessment because his actions in the battle are still being played for laughs. He "humorously" surrenders at a pivotal moment in the fight and acts foolishly in general. He never has a moment where "this loose behavior I throw off" like Hal in Henry IV, Part One and shows true bravery. As I said, showing up for the battle when he's forced into service doesn't cut it for me.
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 6/30 3:11pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 6/30 3:13pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Gary_Buchenara
	He seems to walk straight into dangerous situations, all the while protesting about how scared he is, throughout the film. Morpha2 has listed some of these above. I can see that the Gungans generally were used to convey the theme of the lesser taking on the greater, a la the Ewoks. However I don't see anything more than attempted comic relief in Jar Jar specifically.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 3:58pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	The fact that Jar-Jar was out there intentionally doing when it came to the final battle makes him heroic. It's not dependent on him being any less clumsy. The fact that he's still played for laughs has no bearing on it. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 6/30 4:04pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	But he's out there doing dangerous stuff throughout the film. Complaining about being scared and acting like an idiot, yes, but still doing these things. For there to be a transformation he has to go from not doing dangerous things to willingly doing them.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 4:15pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Before he wasn't intentionally getting himself into trouble. In the final batlle, Jar-Jar purposefully leads his troops into battle, is shown trying to instill faith in his men "Steady Steady", and when it comes time to fight, he digs in and tries to fight as best he could. That's what makes him a hero. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 6/30 4:30pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	He may not be intentionally getting into trouble, but do you agree that he voluntarily goes into potentially dangerous environments and situations throughout the film?
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venepe Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 6/30 4:33pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Before he wasn't intentionally getting himself into trouble. In the final batlle, Jar-Jar purposefully leads his troops into battle, is shown trying to instill faith in his men "Steady Steady", and when it comes time to fight, he digs in and tries to fight as best he could. That's what makes him a hero. We can disect the movie and start picking scenes and dialog that in fact show that Jar Jar was a hero. And we can use that as evidence of Lucas' intent to portray Jar Jar as a hero and show how he grew from a clumsy coward to a clumsy hero. But, if the general audience, and a large part of the expert audience (the fans) failed to notice this growth, failed to see the hero in Jar Jar, then Lucas failed as a storyteller. A storyteller must convince the audience of his purpose. He cannot just hope that after careful dissection and analysis the audience will understand what he meant. -----signature----- Triumph: "I don't regret picking on the Star Wars nerds but you have to feel a little sorry for them. I hope George Lucas CGIs them some girlfriends."
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 4:51pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 6/30 4:55pm (4 edits total) Edited By: Go-Mer-Tonic
	The main point of Jar-Jar was to appear to be annoying and pointless, but turn out to be integral to the heroes' success. It's the same lesson Luke learned when he first met Yoda, only this lesson is for the audience. These movies are there to exercise our minds, not hand everything to us wrapped up in a neat little bow on our laps. Not everyone will learn that lesson, but it wasn't Lucas who failed. Gary_Buchenara posted: He may not be intentionally getting into trouble, but do you agree that he voluntarily goes into potentially dangerous environments and situations throughout the film? He was always avoiding trouble. After he oeffered to lead the Jedi to Untah Gunga, he realized he would be punished and declined to go. It was only when they pointed out the droids would be back that he realized it was the lesser of 2 dangers. When it came time to go through the planet's core, he didn't want to go again, only deciding to go when he remembered he would be "punished" if he stayed. He didn't willingly get into trouble, he just accidentally got into trouble. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 6/30 4:58pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 6/30 5:05pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Gary_Buchenara
	He may have inadvertently been an integral part of the hero's success, but does that make him a hero? I also question whether the Jar Jar experience is the same as Yoda in ESB. Yoda appears to be an irritating little troll and turns out to be a venerable Jedi Master. Jar Jar appears to be clumsy idiot and then reveals himself to be a clumsy idiot. Edit: I'm not suggesting he ever looked for trouble. All I'm saying is that he voluntarily entered dangerous situations throughout the film, the final of which was the Battle of Naboo. In many cases, the battle included, Jar Jar had little or no choice but to do so. All of this is consistent throughout the film IMO.
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venepe Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 6/30 5:09pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	I seriously doubt that Lucas wanted to teach the audience a lesson on tolerance. The lesson was for the characters surrounding Jar Jar, and in that Lucas succeded. But the audience must see why the characters were wrong to quickly dismiss Jar Jar, and in that Lucas failed. -----signature----- Triumph: "I don't regret picking on the Star Wars nerds but you have to feel a little sorry for them. I hope George Lucas CGIs them some girlfriends."
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 5:31pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 6/30 5:35pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Go-Mer-Tonic
	Again, it wasn't Lucas who failed. He made Jar-Jar an integral hero in the film, if the audience didn't notice that, what can Lucas do about it? That's like saying if the audience didn't notice there were light sabers in the film, then Lucas failed to portray them. If Lucas failed to portray Jar-Jar's worth and heroism, then how is it I was able to see it? Gary_Buchenara posted: He may have inadvertently been an integral part of the hero's success, but does that make him a hero? I also question whether the Jar Jar experience is the same as Yoda in ESB. Yoda appears to be an irritating little troll and turns out to be a venerable Jedi Master. Jar Jar appears to be clumsy idiot and then reveals himself to be a clumsy idiot. Edit: I'm not suggesting he ever looked for trouble. All I'm saying is that he voluntarily entered dangerous situations throughout the film, the final of which was the Battle of Naboo. In many cases, the battle included, Jar Jar had little or no choice but to do so. All of this is consistent throughout the film IMO. Being integral to the hero's success didn't make Jar-Jar a hero, it gave him an importance. It gave Jar-Jar a point to being there in the story. The fact that Jar-Jar always wanted to help his friends makes him a hero. The fact that Jar-Jar was good hearted makes him a hero. The fact that he bravely fought in the final battle despite his fear makes him a hero. And Jar-Jar always has a choice, just like -we- always have a choice, just like Anakin always had a choice. He chose to help his friends, he chose to fight in the final battle. He chose to be a hero. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 6/30 5:37pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	OK, I'm done. Thanks for the interesting chats.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 6/30 5:38pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Thanks for taking the time to listen. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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DarthApocalypse Registered: Apr '07	Date Posted: 6/30 7:19pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Go-Mer-Tonic posted: When I said like many other Gungans are shown to do, I was intending to be referencing when they were all running away after Tarpals called for the retreat. I could have worded that better, I see how it was confusing. Ah, ok. I misunderstood the time you were referring to. I thought you meant the time between the shield went up and the battle droids penetrated the shield. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: As far as the Gungan's letting him run away, what were they going to do? Shoot him? The worst that would have happened is he would have not been able to go back to the Gungan society, which is where he starts the movie. He might have been lonely, but he was perfectly capable of fending for himself. When talking to Padme on the ship, he describes his morning as "Preetty Okeday", he was eating his breakfast just fine when the droids showed up. I doubt it. In the beginning of the movie, Jar-Jar clearly wasn't going to be banished again. He was going to be given a more serious punishment until Qui-Gon intervened. I imagine a punishment even more harsh than that would be given for desertion, a crime far more grave than being a general irritant. Also, as I said before, it wouldn't do to let someone with knowledge of your battle plans leave when you know the enemy is close by and they can easily be captured. No military is that stupid. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Why did Jar-Jar keep touching things after Qui-Gon told him not to? Because he was curious about things. Maybe he has ADD or something. That doesn't make him fearless, it just makes him annoying. I didn't say he was fearless, just that his fear must not have been as great as you were making it out to be. If his curiosity is overpowering his fear, he must not be too worried about being robbed and crunched. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: When the droid jumped on Jar-Jar's back, he was ducking. As I keep saying he was scared, but he didn't run away. To me it looks like he's hiding to avoid getting involved in melee combat. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: When he ran towards the droids, it was to get away from the giant boombers he unleashed, which incidentally took out at least one tank. Which is stupid, because they were moving faster than he was and it increases his chance of getting killed by the droids. Go-Mer-Tonic posted: The reason he was "out there doing" was because he was -endeavoring- to fight the droids. Even though his success was accidental, he was -doing- his best. What makes him a hero is that he was doing his best -despite- his fear. And this is that I don't understand. If everything he did was accidental, how is he making a concerted effort? I'll give him points for attempting to use the sling but I can't see how a fool who gets lucky is a heroic character. -----signature----- Don't take life too seriously. Nobody gets out alive.
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