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Author	Topic: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 7/10 12:33pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 7/10 12:34pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Go-Mer-Tonic
	Sure, people aren't perfect, my point is neither are you. For you to say the script was bad to you, that's one thing. But to act like it was simply bad is another. Obviously the movie was incredibly successful, so the worst effect this perceived "bad writing" had was that some of us thought it could have been better. Personally, I thought it was at least on par with the classic trilogy, if not better, which is more than adequate for me. Perfection is an impossible goal. As long as the information is conveyed and they sound reasonably well spoken, then that's all that matters to me. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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rechedelphar Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 7/14 8:06pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Jar-Jar ought to be respected just because he is willing to (and does) fight for the Gungans, many of which had despised Jar-Jar. Jar-Jar's awkwardness is overblown and crosses the border into unrealistic. It goes to a point where you just think "Okay, this is obviously supposed to be a joke character." It should have never reached that point. He could be portrayed as clumsy and unlucky without the over-the-top exagerrations. His being banished had potential to be where the audience connected to Jar-Jar and felt for him. But his ridiculous antics makes you think, well who the hell wouldn't banish him. -----signature----- Clemson Football: 8-3, 6-2 ACC (Atlantic Champs) 34-21 win over Virginia ---------- West Bromwich: 31 points, 2nd in league 4-1 win over Bristol City
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Strilo Title: Manager: • Music • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 7/14 10:01pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Just because perfection is unattainable does not mean we should stop striving for it. People like Lucas are always working to better themselves and their work. Your argument here is weak. -----signature----- #1 on iTunes Most Played: The Killers "Human" #1 on iTunes Most Played Scores: Fellowship of the Ring "Bilbo's Ring" ---------- They will not force us. They will stop degrading us. They will not control us. We will be victorious.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 7/15 10:33am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Once again you are taking a matter of opinion and making it out to be a fact. Perfection is unattainable, the best you can hope for is somewhere above "good enough" and "perfect". Acting like what would be good enough for you was what Lucas wanted to go for (or should have wanted to go for) is a little short sighted if you ask me. I think Lucas got what he wanted out of Jar-Jar. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 7/15 1:14pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Yep. We can agree and disagree about perfection or the need for Jar Jar to be better than he was. But for Lucas, he was just fine as he is. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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Strilo Title: Manager: • Music • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 7/16 6:58am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Which is why for many, Lucas' judgment has been called into question as a writer and a director. -----signature----- #1 on iTunes Most Played: The Killers "Human" #1 on iTunes Most Played Scores: Fellowship of the Ring "Bilbo's Ring" ---------- They will not force us. They will stop degrading us. They will not control us. We will be victorious.
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 7/16 9:31am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 7/16 9:32am (1 edits total) Edited By: Go-Mer-Tonic
	Lucas' sensibilities have -always- been called into question by others. People didn't understand THX and thought it shouldn't be released it was so bad, and it's now considered one of the best science fiction films of all time. People didn't "get" American Graffiti, yet it released to great success. The people involved with making the original Star Wars thought it was "a bit rubbish". And now you would probably say it was one of the best movies of all time. So please understand why I put more weight into what Lucas thinks is a good idea than the many people who think his ideas are bad. Maybe it's up to you to make a movie series that really shows Lucas up for the hack you think he is. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 7/16 10:58am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	People didn't understand THX and thought it shouldn't be released it was so bad, and it's now considered one of the best science fiction films of all time. It is? People didn't "get" American Graffiti, yet it released to great success. You're contradicting yourself. If "people" hadn't "got" AG, it wouldn't have been successful. I think what you mean is that the studio suits didn't "get" it, but the audience did. The people involved with making the original Star Wars thought it was "a bit rubbish". And now you would probably say it was one of the best movies of all time. Most of those people changed their tune once they saw the finished product. Lucas, on the other hand, is in the minority of people who DON'T consider it a great film. So please understand why I put more weight into what Lucas thinks is a good idea than the many people who think his ideas are bad. Actually I'm confused. You say that Lucas is right for championing American Graffiti since audiences love it. Then you say that Lucas is right about SW because audiences love it, even though Lucas thinks the original film is crap. -----signature----- Personally if treating homosexuals with respect and dignity is the definition of 'anti-Christian' then I hope that Obama is the friggin' anti-Christ. - FIDo
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Go-Mer-Tonic Registered: Aug '99	Date Posted: 7/16 11:04am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	He was right, while the original release of ANH was great to us, he realized it had room for improvement. You are right about the suits not getting AG, that's what I should have said. Bottom line is Lucas has had people questioning his tastes all along, and he has mostly ended up having the last laugh as his decisions have led to some of the most successful movies of all time, TPM being one of the most successful. So when some people sit there and tell me Lucas messed up with Jar-Jar, I have to shake my head. Not just because I like Jar-Jar just the way he is, but because Lucas once again ended up with the last laugh. -----signature----- "...that’s not my job, to make people like my movies. They either like them or they don’t. That’s completely out of my hands.” -Lucas "At least I will have finished what I set out to do, and at least they will have been good to me." -Lucas
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Strilo Title: Manager: • Music • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 7/17 7:09am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Go-Mer-Tonic posted: Maybe it's up to you to make a movie series that really shows Lucas up for the hack you think he is. See, this is a perfect example of you not being a responsible poster. I've never once said I thought Lucas was a hack. You are not replying to me here, you are replying to the whole group of "bashers" and "haters" as you see them. This is you vs. them. Please stop replying like you are part of a crusade against the tyranny of SW haters and start replying to what people actually say. I think Lucas is a great director. Really a wonderful directing job, especially in ROTS. The man is also a fantastic editor, truly gifted. I just don't think he is a very good screenwriter and guess who agrees with me? George Lucas. So please stop putting words in people's mouths. -----signature----- #1 on iTunes Most Played: The Killers "Human" #1 on iTunes Most Played Scores: Fellowship of the Ring "Bilbo's Ring" ---------- They will not force us. They will stop degrading us. They will not control us. We will be victorious.
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darth-sinister Title: Manager Emeritus Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 7/18 11:47am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong? - Date Edited: 7/18 11:58am (1 edits total) Edited By: darth-sinister
	Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted: Most of those people changed their tune once they saw the finished product. Lucas, on the other hand, is in the minority of people who DON'T consider it a great film. So please understand why I put more weight into what Lucas thinks is a good idea than the many people who think his ideas are bad. Actually I'm confused. You say that Lucas is right for championing American Graffiti since audiences love it. Then you say that Lucas is right about SW because audiences love it, even though Lucas thinks the original film is crap. No, he considers ANH to be a good film with bad special effects. And really, there is stuff in there during the original release that bothered him and are noticeable. Matte lines, a few aliens in the cantina, the shoddyness of the Lightsabers and the slowness of the ships. Especially the Falcon. He is right to champion the changes to the film, even if the old school fans who grew up with a shoddy looking film don't agree with him. Strilo posted: Which is why for many, Lucas' judgment has been called into question as a writer and a director. And that is their right to do so. Make no mistake about that. I just find it funny that they call it into question, just because they don't like it. I mean, I'm sure that there are things in the OT that one could call into question, yet I don't really see them. Besides the Ewoks. And I'm talking pre-Special Edition. -----signature----- Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge." Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side. Something, something, something complete."
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rechedelphar Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 7/18 12:01pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	I recently watched ESB again and noticed that Threepio was ridiculously annoying in Cloud City. It wasn't even slightly funny. He was constantly berrating to Chewbacca and whining about his currect state of despair. I found 3po amusing in AOTC but annoying in ESB. -----signature----- Clemson Football: 8-3, 6-2 ACC (Atlantic Champs) 34-21 win over Virginia ---------- West Bromwich: 31 points, 2nd in league 4-1 win over Bristol City
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d_arblay Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 7/19 11:51am Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted: People didn't understand THX and thought it shouldn't be released it was so bad, and it's now considered one of the best science fiction films of all time. It is? By quite a lot of people, it is. But to say people didn't understand it would be unfair also. People just didn't watch it when it was released. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted: People didn't "get" American Graffiti, yet it released to great success. You're contradicting yourself. If "people" hadn't "got" AG, it wouldn't have been successful. I think what you mean is that the studio suits didn't "get" it, but the audience did. Yes thats exactly what is being got at. Hardly anybody thought American Graffiti was going to be any good at all before it opened. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted: The people involved with making the original Star Wars thought it was "a bit rubbish". And now you would probably say it was one of the best movies of all time. Most of those people changed their tune once they saw the finished product. Lucas, on the other hand, is in the minority of people who DON'T consider it a great film. Yes but he's the filmmaker - his view is not impartial. Many filmmakers who make rubbish often think its great because they're involved so deeply in the material. But it can work both ways. Lucas only doesn't consider it to be great because he wanted it to be so much better. so his view of it is clouded by the weight of his own expectations. fair enough if you ask me. you have to remember his opinion is within a certain context. Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon posted: So please understand why I put more weight into what Lucas thinks is a good idea than the many people who think his ideas are bad. Actually I'm confused. You say that Lucas is right for championing American Graffiti since audiences love it. Then you say that Lucas is right about SW because audiences love it, even though Lucas thinks the original film is crap. again, you're not being fair. show us a quote where lucas once says ANH is "crap". as i said earlier, the criticisms he has of it are from his own artistic involvement in the film. it was not 100% what he wanted it to be. i think its refreshing for him to say so. im a musician myself, and sometimes i will do shows that are considered to be great by the vast majority of the audience, whereas i am more critical and disappointed in them, due to some, often unnoticed errors in my performance, which make me think it could have been so much better. its perfectly natural. in fact i think lucas has often stated that he is happy with the film. but thats not to suggest i feel lucas is always right. he's a human being - as prone to error as anyone else in any given subject. but he is still a wonderful filmmaker who has not only advanced the industry to a huge degree, but also altered and changed the collective consciousness of a whole generation of people in very profound ways through the stories which he has told. he's a once in a generation figure who we ALL take for granted. -----signature----- My own "Complete Saga" trailers: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CDF92B3798BD4675 Hope you enjoy!
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Jedi_Keiran_Halcyon Registered: Dec '00	Date Posted: 7/19 12:03pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	darth-sinister posted: No, he considers ANH to be a good film with bad special effects. And really, there is stuff in there during the original release that bothered him and are noticeable. Matte lines, a few aliens in the cantina, the shoddyness of the Lightsabers and the slowness of the ships. Especially the Falcon. He is right to champion the changes to the film, even if the old school fans who grew up with a shoddy looking film don't agree with him. Then why are there still visible matte boxes around many of the ships on the DVD-SEs? And why are the stereo channels inexplicably reversed on the SW DVD? If the SEs were really about fixing shoddy effects, Lucas would have focused on THESE issues instead of things like a redundant scene with a bad CGI Jabba and pointless Fett cameo, or a gratuitous shot of Vader's shuttle docking that does nothing but interrupt the flow of an otherwise edge-of-your-seat finale, or a musical number that makes Lapti Nek seem tasteful by comparison. The SE's and Jar-Jar have a common thread: Lucas pretends they're all about serving/improving the story, but in reality they're just an excuse to show off his new CGI toys. -----signature----- Personally if treating homosexuals with respect and dignity is the definition of 'anti-Christian' then I hope that Obama is the friggin' anti-Christ. - FIDo
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d_arblay Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 7/19 12:09pm Subject: Jar-Jar Binks: what went wrong?
	rechedelphar posted: I recently watched ESB again and noticed that Threepio was ridiculously annoying in Cloud City. It wasn't even slightly funny. He was constantly berrating to Chewbacca and whining about his currect state of despair. I found 3po amusing in AOTC but annoying in ESB. there's also some truth in the idea that what we like and treasure as children we grow up and judge in an unfair context. there are many things i watched as a kid and watch now and again to this day for sentimental reasons that i know, had i first seen them as an adult, i would have found terribly annoying and tedious. threepio and jar jar are very similar characters - adults disliked threepio when the first star wars came out. that was his function in the first 3 movies and also the prequels to a lesser degree. he's the tension breaker - someone to provide contrast and split the moments of heavy exposition with humour and light-heartedness. jar jar's function in tpm is the same - yes he irritates the adult audience but he also irritates the others in the film. its a deliberate function. he's the clown. adults were not meant to like him. they were meant to like darth maul. same with anh - threepio was for the kids and vader for the adults. the difference is that the audience who mostly judge the films now, grew up with threepio. they dont find him irritating (even though he often is) because they have the fond memories of watching him through a child's eyes. the kids of today who like jar jar (and most do) will grow up and judge the star wars films in a very different (no less valid) way in the near future. the question is not - "is jar annoying?" of course he is. the other characters roll their eyes whenever he is around. he is a foil. the question is - does he ruin the movie? if anybody found tpm to be ruined because of jar jar alone, i can have no sympathy with them. my only recommendation would be to watch films of a different type - star wars clearly isn't for them. it may have been when they were a child and they may have some sentimental love for the old films for this - but the new ones should not be altered in tone or target audience just because a lot of fans have aged. that wouldnt make any sense and also wouldn't bind the six films together cohesively. if some fans want solely film noir or movies that deal with adult themes and 100% of the characters to be those with which they identify, why are they watching a family film set in outer space? -----signature----- My own "Complete Saga" trailers: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CDF92B3798BD4675 Hope you enjoy!
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