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Author	Topic: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
starwarsobesses Registered: May '08	Date Posted: 6/27 10:01am Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy - Date Edited: 6/27 10:03am (1 edits total) Edited By: starwarsobesses
	I disagree. The PT is not Obi-wans trilogy It's Anakins. Anakin to me is more of a main character than Obi-wan. -----signature----- I love the Anakin/Padme love story My favorite Padme quote: Padme: I truly deeply love you. I love the PT Proud Prequel Defender
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NelanisGhost Registered: Jun '06	Date Posted: 6/27 6:35pm Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	DRush76 posted: I disagree. Completely. Especially since Obi-Wan doesn't play a strong role in TPM, until the last half hour. And nor do I consider him to be the least morally compromised character in the trilogy. In his own way, he seemed as morally compromised as the other characters. I simply cannot join the CULT OF OBI-WAN KENOBI. That's funny because I never liked Obi-wan much. But I still agree that's the movies are from his perspective, the jedi perspective.. -----signature----- If there's a bright center of the galaxy, you're on the planet it's farthest from: Earth Our own stunning bright center: http://astrosurf.com/sguisard/Pagim/GC.html Barnes and Noble: TFU hardcover. Nice! $5.98 in discount section.....
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Malaki Registered: Feb '03	Date Posted: 7/1 6:52am Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	Starting Anakin so young, and then jumping ahead to his late teens as they did, really dampened the progression of his life. We don't get to see those formative years and the progression of his personality, so by AOTC, Anakin is basically a new character to us. Obi-wan was established early and more frequently in TPM, so he was already a familiar personality. By the time we get to ANH, Obi-wan is near the end of his life, and we begin anew with Luke, who is a lot like his father was in AOTC. Anakin is an unknown entity at this point, and the focus is still on Obi-wan. I think Anakin is really just a focal point for the whole series. The pivot that the two trilogies balance on. Obi-wan on one side, and Luke on the other. -----signature----- Stormtrooper in the Emperor's S.E.C.R.E.T. S.E.R.V.I.C.E. I'm out of it for a little while (4 years ) and everyone has delusions of grandeur!
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Obi-Ewan Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 7/3 8:10pm Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	After reading about the development of the first three films, I came to the conclusion that Obi-Wan was largely screwed out of his role in the original trilogy. I understand what Lucas did it, but he still ended up with only about half an hour of screen time out of a six-hour story. He was left with a fraction of the role he was invisioned for. His relationship with Luke was important. He is Luke's link to the past, and in a sense, ours as well. Everything Luke; and by extension, the audience; learns about the past, we learn largely from Obi-Wan. The only part he doesn't get is the chance to confirm Vader's identity. Had Obi-Wan not been killed, he would have accompanied Luke on much of his journey. And even after he was killed, Lucas considered bringing him back to observe the final confrontation between Luke and Vader. I think the prequels were a great chance to show us what Obi-Wan would have done in the original trilogy. We spend the first quarter of Episode I with Obi-Wan, long before Anakin shows up. Obi-Wan is also consistently played by Ewan McGregor, rather than being replaced after the first episode. To an audience that is familiar with the original films, walking into a trilogy populated largely by new characters, Obi-Wan is the first familiar face we see. And among the returning characters, he has the greatest screen time and the strongest connection to his predecessor. Anakin is largely a new character, having been seen for less than a minute in ROTJ, and neither Jake Lloyd nor Hayden Christensen make any attempt to emulate Sebastian Shaw. Ewan McGregor emulates Alec Guinness when necessary, but gives us an original characterization otherwise. He makes a strong center, and gives the audience a familiar character to recognize, and convinces us that he is the character we know. In the second and third episodes, he gets time with Anakin, allowing him to show us the relationship that could have been shown between him and Luke. The one that sticks out in my mind here is the final confrontation with Dooku. The scene obviously mirrors the confrontation between Luke and Vader in ROTJ--scenes that, as originally written, featured Obi-Wan as well. He's also given plenty of time on his own, so he sticks out as an action hero as well as a teacher. After Anakin turns, he's the one good guy we can follow, and the ending of the film connects him back to Luke. So whichever trilogy you start with, I think Obi-Wan is the bridge, the essential connection between the two generations. In his appearance, I can't help thinking Obi-Wan is meant to resemble Lucas himself. And since Luacs has said he sees himself as a teacher first and foremost, I can't help thinking there's a reason for that. Obi-Wan could be just as much Lucas's alter-ego in the prequels as Luke was in the originals. -----signature----- "I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them." --George Lucas
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owner276 Registered: Jul '09	Date Posted: 7/5 8:09pm Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	Interesting concept, but I still think that the series as a whole is concerned about Anakin, and the chosen one prophecy...
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Obi-Ewan Registered: Jan '00	Date Posted: 7/6 6:55am Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	Interesting concept, but I still think that the series as a whole is concerned about Anakin, and the chosen one prophecy... The original trilogy isn't concerned with fulfulling a prophecy at all. Vader redeeming himself and killing Palpatine was secondary to the main goal of the trilogy, which was Luke becoming a Jedi. That Vader kills Palpatine was merely an interesting twist to how the Empire was defeated. It wasn't until over a decade later that Lucas decided to turn Darth Vader into Space Jesus, and this one event into the Fulfillment of an Ancient Prophecy. The fact still remains that very little of the original trilogy is devoted to it, and the Prophecy itself is never spoken of, nor established as anyone's goal. -----signature----- "I am very concerned about our national heritage, and I am very concerned that the films that I watched when I was young and the films that I watched throughout my life are preserved, so that my children can see them." --George Lucas
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sith_rhino Registered: Jul '07	Date Posted: 7/9 9:55am Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	While I agree that Ewan McGregor did a much better job of acting than the Anakins, and had a better role, I still believe the the PT is the Anakin Skywalker story and the OT (in spite of GL's revisionism) is the Luke Skywalker story. The PT shows Anakin go from slave boy to jedi apprentice, then eventually jedi knight. We see him fall in love, get secretly married, and eventually succomb to the dark side to become Darth Vader. While Obi-Wan was much cooler, he really didn't develop or "do") all that much in this trilogy. Sure, he matured, as anyone in that age group would have over those years, but I really do think he was secondary to Anakin.
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CaptainGiladPellaeon Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 7/9 3:38pm Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	Well, I’ll admit that Obi-Wan’s character development in the prequels is a lot less pronounced than is Anakin’s. Anakin makes a dramatic development from good to evil, and along the way, his character development is painted in such broad strokes, that it is often less about who he is than what he does. He is a Tatooine slave, then a slighted padawan, then a Clone Wars hero, and as he moves through these respective social roles, I feel like I never really get to know the person who inhabits them. Obi-Wan’s development in the PT is also a lot less overt than Luke’s development in the OT. Luke starts as a wide eyed kid and goes on to discover great power along with his audience. But as young Obi-Wan comes of age, the power has already been discovered, by the Jedi all around him since his infancy, in his own universe, and by Luke for audiences who saw the OT first. When Luke learns to move objects with the Force, it’s a major part of his character development. How can it be the same for Obi-Wan when thousands of Jedi do it all the time, from his point of view, and when Luke’s already done it for audiences? Obi-Wan’s journey then, becomes a more personal one, less about taking steps into a larger world and more about finding his own place in it. This is one of the ways that Lucas’ use of prequels to tell his story is really neat, because the audience’s place in the future of the OT and the characters’ place in the past of the OT are complementary, so Obi-Wan can be our touchstone, helping us rediscover the Star Wars universe, just as Luke helped us discover it for the first time. One of my favorite subtle bits of Obi-Wan’s character development is the line “I will do what I must.” Qui-Gon says the line in TPM when he argues with Obi-Wan over the merits of training Anakin. Obi-Wan, in his youthful inexperience, is letting the Jedi code think for him, and Qui-Gon teaches Obi-Wan, through the line “I will do what I must,” that there can be personal obligations outside official codes and rules. When Obi-Wan speaks the same line, in ROTS, as a wise older Jedi, he is not transgressing the Jedi code, but the bounds of his friendship with Anakin. Fittingly, he uses the words of his old master, who resisted orthodoxy, to counter Anakin’s own brand of absolutist decrees. But the twist is that Qui-Gon says, “I will do what I must,” when contemplating rebellion against Yoda and the council. Obi-Wan speaks the line in affirmation of his mandate from Yoda, setting his personal feelings aside. I think it would be too extreme to say that Obi-Wan’s journey takes him back where he began, as a zealously obedient padawan. But he does not transform into his old master. Rather, he revises the meaning of his master’s old words as he subtly grows into himself. -----signature----- Whatever slippery ground exists here is beneath your feet. – Admiral Gilad Pellaeon (Vision of the Future) I question all that is not yet familiar to me. – Grand Admiral Thrawn (Heir to the Empire)
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sith_rhino Registered: Jul '07	Date Posted: 7/10 4:38am Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	Intersting observation. I hadn't noticed the line “I will do what I must” being repeated in those movies. GL does seem to like to do that, and I find it interesting when the same line is repeated, but has different meanings each time, as is the case here (as opposed to "I have a bad feeling about this").
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Nordom Registered: Jun '04	Date Posted: 7/10 5:39am Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	Instead of SW being the "Targedy of Darth Vader" as Lucas claims a different title might be "The triumphs and failiures of Obi-Wan Kenobi". Consider Obi-Wan tries and fails with Obi-Wan and the Galaxy pays a terrible price for his misstake. Then he tires and suceeds with Luke and the Galaxy is saved. Anakin is his failiure and Luke his triumph. Now I know that Obi-Wan is not wholly to blame for Anakin but he himself thinks that is to blame and he seeks redemption and finds it with Luke. Food for thoughts. Regards Nordom -----signature----- "I think, therefore I am.. I think" "Morte, how do you stay afloat?" "Flatulence, you stupid polygon"
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VadersPappy Registered: Jul '09	Date Posted: 7/10 5:58am Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	Nordom, I think you meant Obi-Wan tries and fails with Anakin, unless Obi-Wan has a split personality! While I like Ewan's performance alot, I don't think the character of Obi-Wan changes as dramatically as Anakin's or Luke's in the OT. Obi's facial hair and hair length changes more than his personality does! Anakin went from a kind little boy who risks is life to help people into a power-hungry Sith who turns against everyone who cared for him, except Palpy.
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Nordom Registered: Jun '04	Date Posted: 7/10 6:39am Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	Ohh, me be an idiot. Of course it was supposed to be Anakin and not Obi-Wan. (slap, slap, idiot hands.) Thanks for the correction. Regards Nordom -----signature----- "I think, therefore I am.. I think" "Morte, how do you stay afloat?" "Flatulence, you stupid polygon"
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 7/11 2:20am Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	I don't think Obi Wan failed. It was his guidance until Anakin was 23 that made Anakin into the overly compassionate Jedi he became. He was an amazing Jedi. Failure could be seen in his fall to the dark side, but if we are talking about overall, the teachings of those early years was the only thing that Anakin had to fall back on when he finally defeated Sidious. The compassion and attachment that everyone called horrible - which Obi Wan inadvertently fostered - is what Anakin drew on when he came to his senses in ROTJ. So I don't see it as Obi Wan failed, rather, he was not entirely successful, but overall, he was. -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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CaptainGiladPellaeon Registered: Jun '09	Date Posted: 7/13 1:13am Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	Well, Obi-Wan does claim that he failed ("I have failed you, Anakin" in ROTS and "I was wrong" in ROTS), but he did successfully train Anakin to knighthood, after which point, Anakin destroyed his own potential because of his fears about Padme, so I have a hard time blaming Obi-Wan. As much as Obi-Wan is my favorite of all Star Wars characters, I do think he is part of a PT era Jedi mind set that can be unforgiving to the point of being unrealistic. Vader says that Obi-Wan once thought as Luke did, concerning redemption, but I don't see any evidence in ROTS or afterward. As sad as he is about it, Obi-Wan seems to accept Yoda's pronouncement that the dark side forever dominates the destiny of a fallen Jedi and that the boy Obi-Wan trained is "gone." As late as ROTJ, Obi-Wan seems to be in Yoda's camp concerning the necessity of killing Vader, whereas Luke champions a different, more redemptive vision. And just as Obi-Wan is unforgiving toward Vader, in a different way, he is unfairly unforgiving toward himself, in my opinion. ROTS made me like AOTC a lot better. When I first saw AOTC, I thought that Anakin was much too brooding and unlikable. He seemed already on his way to the dark side and already on his way to murdering Obi-Wan in ANH, which made Obi-Wan a failure of a teacher, regardless of whose fault that was. But the ROTS Anakin, before his fall, is so different from the troubled kid in AOTC. He's a Jedi hero and a good friend to Obi-Wan, which makes Obi-Wan's training more of a success, and it also makes Anakin's tragedy more poignant for me, because it becomes the story of someone who has conquered his inner demons and triumphed but couldn't hold on to his victory. But Anakin's transformation from AOTC to ROTS seems to happen off screen between the two movies, so his whole story still strikes me as Obi-Wan's foil, rather than fleshed out in its own right. -----signature----- Whatever slippery ground exists here is beneath your feet. – Admiral Gilad Pellaeon (Vision of the Future) I question all that is not yet familiar to me. – Grand Admiral Thrawn (Heir to the Empire)
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Jovieve Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 7/13 8:18pm Subject: The Prequels -- Obi-Wan's Trilogy
	I don't think Obi-Wan failed in his teachings, Anakin just failed to learn because he didn't want to. You can lead a horse to water, sort of thing. The only place I see Obi-Wan failing is that he coddled Anakin too much, cared for him too much, covered up for him when he shouldn't have. Basically, Obi-Wan failed Anakin because of his attachment to him. Had he not been so loving and compassionate toward him, who knows how Anakin might have turned out. -----signature----- "Are there Sith on this planet, Master Kenobi? Are they coming for us now? Should we - I don't know - run?" "Run?" he echoed. "Run where, do you suggest?" "I don't know! Away?"
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