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Author Topic: The Power of Darth Plagueis
Arawn_Fenn  10330 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 6/30 7:55pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis
Creating a previously nonexistent life form and making an existing life form immortal are obviously different abilities.

 

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Gary_Buchenara  393 posts
Registered: Apr '09
8068_R5-D4
Date Posted: 6/30 7:57pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis
So what do you think Plagueis could and couldn't do?

 
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stranger-danger  234 posts
Registered: Jan '09
6642_42
Date Posted: 6/30 7:58pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis
Arawn_Fenn posted:
stranger-danger posted:
What kind of immortality was granted by stopping/cheating death?


confused


What I mean is, since you were advocating earlier that "the power to cheat death" was something "more occult" than simply saving someone from a critical state, what is the nature of the power that you referred to? Does it allow for immortality? If so, then what are the limitations of this? If not, then what is it?

Also, since you allude to the "one" that Sidious refers to as the only individual to "cheat death" being someone other than Plagueis, who else would it be?

 

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Arawn_Fenn  10330 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 6/30 8:00pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis - Date Edited: 6/30 8:04pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Arawn_Fenn
Gary_Buchenara posted:
So what do you think Plagueis could and couldn't do?


Plagueis could create life and save beings from dying, but did not attain the secret of immortality.

Stranger_Danger posted:
Also, since you allude to the "one" that Sidious refers to as the only individual to "cheat death" being someone other than Plagueis, who else would it be?


Another Sith.

 

-----signature-----
"You're both from strange little backwater planets. You both have odd powers. You're male and she's female. What more do you need?
Believe me, buddy, if I were you, I'd go right up there and ask her if she wants to ride on my rancor." - Han Solo
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Gary_Buchenara  393 posts
Registered: Apr '09
8068_R5-D4
Date Posted: 6/30 8:00pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis - Date Edited: 6/30 8:03pm (1 edits total) Edited By: Gary_Buchenara
So he could cheat death, just not permanently?

 
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Arawn_Fenn  10330 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 6/30 8:06pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis
I don't see postponing death as cheating it.

 

-----signature-----
"You're both from strange little backwater planets. You both have odd powers. You're male and she's female. What more do you need?
Believe me, buddy, if I were you, I'd go right up there and ask her if she wants to ride on my rancor." - Han Solo
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stranger-danger  234 posts
Registered: Jan '09
6642_42
Date Posted: 6/30 8:09pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis - Date Edited: 6/30 8:10pm (1 edits total) Edited By: stranger-danger
Arawn_Fenn posted:
Gary_Buchenara posted:
So what do you think Plagueis could and couldn't do?


Plagueis could create life and save beings from dying, but did not attain the secret of immortality.


Do you suggest that no one at all learned the power of immortality?

Also, what is your view on the limitations of "saving beings from dying"?

And who is the "one" that Sidious refers to as having acquired the ability "to cheat death"?

 

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Gary_Buchenara  393 posts
Registered: Apr '09
8068_R5-D4
Date Posted: 6/30 8:23pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis
Arawn_Fenn posted:
I don't see postponing death as cheating it.



That would be one interpretation, although it's a common term used on planet Earth where no-one who is said to "cheat death" in fact achieves immortality. So in that sense there could be said to be a temporary cheating perhaps.

 
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Arawn_Fenn  10330 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 6/30 8:25pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis - Date Edited: 6/30 8:29pm (5 edits total) Edited By: Arawn_Fenn
stranger-danger posted:
Do you suggest that no one at all learned the power of immortality?


No, I said "Another Sith".

Gary_Buchenara posted:
That would be one interpretation, although it's a common term used on planet Earth where no-one who is said to "cheat death" in fact achieves immortality.


However, according to Palpatine only one person in history has achieved this power, so it's not the commonly encountered "planet Earth" usage of the term.

 

-----signature-----
"You're both from strange little backwater planets. You both have odd powers. You're male and she's female. What more do you need?
Believe me, buddy, if I were you, I'd go right up there and ask her if she wants to ride on my rancor." - Han Solo
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stranger-danger  234 posts
Registered: Jan '09
6642_42
Date Posted: 6/30 8:44pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis
Arawn_Fenn posted:
Another Sith.


Please, explain.

 

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- My father, on satisfying hookers.
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Arawn_Fenn  10330 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 6/30 8:45pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis
It seems pretty self-explanatory to me.

 

-----signature-----
"You're both from strange little backwater planets. You both have odd powers. You're male and she's female. What more do you need?
Believe me, buddy, if I were you, I'd go right up there and ask her if she wants to ride on my rancor." - Han Solo
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stranger-danger  234 posts
Registered: Jan '09
6642_42
Date Posted: 6/30 8:51pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis
Arawn_Fenn posted:
It seems pretty self-explanatory to me.


What evidence has led you to believe that an entirely seperate and unseen character is responsible for leasrning this ability, and why is this anonymous Sith being brought up after Sidious referenced Plagueis as having similar powers and, in the context of the story and the audience's perception, could more easily be attributed with that power?

It would require a lot of self-direction on the part of the audience to arrive at the same conclusion that you have. I interpret the "one" who could "cheat death" (whatever that may mean) was indeed Plagueis, though Sidious' mention that this "one" is the only one to have achieved that power is his admission that he previously lied about the Sith master having taught his apprentice everything he knew (specifically this power).

For me, it would make little sense for Lucas to have been referring to an entirely different Sith Lord altogether in that scene. If he was, then the reference is an arbitrary (and unnecessary) cop out OR may be hint towards a larger backstory that has yet to be revealed involving a new Sith character, though again this would also be an unnecessary move on the part of Lucas, as I think Plagueis could more conveniently attributed with the power to "cheat death".

 

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"Sometimes, you gotta' hit 'em in the crotch with a mallet so they feel ANYTHIN' at all."
- My father, on satisfying hookers.
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Gary_Buchenara  393 posts
Registered: Apr '09
8068_R5-D4
Date Posted: 6/30 8:52pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis
Arawn_Fenn posted:


Gary_Buchenara posted:
That would be one interpretation, although it's a common term used on planet Earth where no-one who is said to "cheat death" in fact achieves immortality.


However, according to Palpatine only one person in history has achieved this power, so it's not the commonly encountered "planet Earth" usage of the term.



No, but the point I'm making is that nor need it mean achieving immortality. So that being the case, could this power achieved by only one being potentially be the same power which Plagueis is described as having? And that being the case, couldn't Plagueis be that one?

 
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stranger-danger  234 posts
Registered: Jan '09
6642_42
Date Posted: 6/30 8:59pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis - Date Edited: 6/30 9:51pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Strilo
Gary_Buchenara, we must join our power! Arawn_Fenn's power is weakening. If we strike quickly, we can destroy his absurd ideas of immortality and anonymous Sith Lords!

 

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"Sometimes, you gotta' hit 'em in the crotch with a mallet so they feel ANYTHIN' at all."
- My father, on satisfying hookers.
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Arawn_Fenn  10330 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 6/30 9:17pm Subject: The Power of Darth Plagueis - Date Edited: 6/30 9:23pm (2 edits total) Edited By: Arawn_Fenn
stranger-danger posted:
What evidence has led you to believe that an entirely seperate and unseen character is responsible for leasrning this ability


This.

Gary_Buchenara posted:
So that being the case, could this power achieved by only one being potentially be the same power which Plagueis is described as having? And that being the case, couldn't Plagueis be that one?


Plagueis taught his apprentice everything he knew. Thus, if Plagueis had the power, Palpatine would also have it.

stranger-danger posted:
It would require a lot of self-direction on the part of the audience to arrive at the same conclusion that you have.


God forbid the audience have any self-direction. We certainly wouldn't want that.

 

-----signature-----
"You're both from strange little backwater planets. You both have odd powers. You're male and she's female. What more do you need?
Believe me, buddy, if I were you, I'd go right up there and ask her if she wants to ride on my rancor." - Han Solo
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