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Author	Topic: Without going under the microscope...
voodoopuuduu Title: Classic Trilogy Trivia Host Registered: Mar '04	Date Posted: 8/15 10:01pm Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	But the PT was a lot busier, so there's more to think about. Very true, but thats why I voted yes. -----signature----- Winner CT Trivia Challenge 44, 54 Winner PT Trivia Challenge 10 , 13, 14, 17 Joint-Winner CT Challenge 49 and 50, PT Challange 18
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Dark_Jedi_Kenobi Title: Manager: • Prequel Trilogy Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 8/15 10:45pm Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	I voted yes, simply due to the fact that the PT has a lot more going on in each film (plot wise) than the original films do. The storylines are more complex, as are many of the characters.
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X-Factor Registered: Jul '09	Date Posted: 8/16 1:23am Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	Yeah, I have to agree with the majority here. The PT is much more complex than the OT. The OT is much simpler, much more black and white, while the PT is more ambiguous. -----signature----- Proud member of the Democrat Socialist Party.
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DarthBoba Registered: Jun '00	Date Posted: 8/16 7:03am Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	Jovieve posted: For me, the part of the PT that changes the OT so much is at the end of RotS, when Anakin is laying in pieces. Obi-Wan walks over to Anakin's saber and just silently picks it up to take with him. It's heartbreaking. Anakin cared nothing for his child. In OT, now, when Ben offers Luke the saber his "father wanted him to have". It's so bittersweet it aches, knowing the truth and knowing Luke is setting a course to learn about his father the hard way. Huh...I never particularly looked at that scene that way. -----signature----- Only a Prime can defeat Vader and his Emperor.
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d_arblay Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 8/19 5:18am Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	i prefer the OT's movies to the PT (although i dont like splitting them - i too like to see it as one saga) but I believe the content and story of the PT goes far deeper intellectually. i adore the PT as written story alone. it has definite shakespeare quality. perhaps the OT is the more emotive, but the questions of moral philosophy and differing perspectives, as well as political intrigue make the PT the far richer trilogy for me. some of that was set and expected. some not quite so. as an example - the OT is fairly dogmatic. the rebels are good guys, the empire are the bad guys. but there's no real exposition to tell us why this is so. the empire get creepy and declamatory music and dress in black and grey so its a given they're bad? yes they kill innocent people when they destroy alderaan but so do the rebels when they destroy the death star. there are equally innocent people working within the establishment, trying to make a living. one could easily analyse it and state the rebel alliance to be nothing more than terrorists. there's no intellectual weight to it. it takes the PT to show us what is to be despised about the Empire - that it is built on a lie and that its Emperor is self-serving and obsessed with his own power. it isn't neccessarily that way with the OT in isolation. how the emperor gets to such a status and how he twists events, manipulating those around him is a more interesting tale. it serves parrallels with our own history and presents them in a fresh and interesting way. in attempted summary, the backdrop to the OT is at its core a simple tale of "good vs evil". although this is a theme within the PT, it is to a far lesser degree and there is no side to really root for - only individuals. we have heroes who do heroic things but there's no clear divisions as far as entities. should we root for all the jedi? both qui-gon and anakin, heroes in their actions, are out of step with jedi and fairly maverick by the apparent status quo. the republic is the establishment - should we root for them? its already corrupt and ends up being fronted by a schemer and a ruthless liar. we can't root for the seperatists or the sith, even if we agree with their ideals, because they're at direct odds to the individual heroes we naturally wish to root for. even in ROTS we are given a different perspective on the sith and are asked to question whether the dark side is really something to be against. i still dont equate Count Dooku to be a "bad guy" in the story, nor the Trade Federation. basically, the PT asks us the questions and gives us the choices of who we wish to side with, if any at all, reasoning for all ("have you ever considered that we may be on the wrong side?"), where the OT doesnt. its simply a tale that states this is black and that is white and tells us which side we should be on. the PT is deeper and more interesting because it shows us that things aren't so clear-cut. in the OT if you saw an imperial he was "a bad guy" by his dress alone. same for a rebel being a "good guy". the one blot on this is probably darth maul who is presented more like an OT villain. but in the context of the wider PT story, he ends up as nothing more than window dressing. for me, it seems the OT characters were judged by their allegiences whereas the PT characters are judged by their actions - anakin being an excellent case. we establish the tuskens to be terrible creatures by their actions, yet when anakin takes out his justifiable anger on them, the presentation switches natural perception to a feeling that he may have done an extremely bad thing, where other films may have greeted such an understandable attack with triumphant music. can you imagine a scene in ANH being played in the same way were Luke to see the Stormtroopers who murdered his aunt and uncle leaving the homestead? if he had chased them down and shot them all i'm sure there would have been no questions asked. one might rightfully argue that the OT are better films becuase of the clear divide (i think they are better films becuase of the condensed story) but intellectually I think it doesn't give them as much credibility. obviously this is only one aspect of the debate but its one i think it is relevant. -----signature----- My own "Complete Saga" trailers: http://www.youtube.com/view_play_list?p=CDF92B3798BD4675 Hope you enjoy!
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Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 8/19 5:41am Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	I voted yes, because the first thing that popped into my head was Anakin's descent into evil. I have never completely bought into Lucas's claim that he had everything mapped out, that he always intended to have Vader be Luke's father, etc. Don't get me wrong, I much prefer the OT to the PT, but, it didn't really get into as much philosophical debate as the PT did. Perhaps it was because we already knew how the PT had to end before we ever saw them, but in the PT, we saw subtleties to Anakin's descent, the machinations that went into it, that were not mirrored in his return to being a Jedi. In Jedi, it was simply Palpy was gonna kill Luke, Vader finally got the courage to complete his return. Some people think it was a process he was going through, others think it was a split decision. Either way, there isn't nearly as much involved in his return as there was in his descent, at least not that was shown in the films. Personally, I tend to go more with the drawn out process, accepting Prince Xizor's view in Shadows of the Empire that Vader never intended to kill Luke at all, despite what he told Palpatine, however, that is in a book, not the films. Only going by what is seen on screen, I think his descent is far more intellectually gratifying than his return. -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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Gary_Buchenara Registered: Apr '09	Date Posted: 8/19 1:03pm Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	More complicated, yes. Deeper, no. That's not a criticism of either trilogy btw.
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ShaneP Title: Lucasfilm Projects Gremlin(Manager ) Registered: Mar '01	Date Posted: 8/19 2:26pm Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	d-arblay i adore the PT as written story alone. I agree with that. That's why the PT EU is probably my favorite. -----signature----- Keep Your Words Sweet. You May Have To Eat Them.
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morpha2 Registered: Aug '05	Date Posted: 8/19 2:31pm Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	drg4 posted: It's kind of a no-brainer. Stories that offer up morally compromised protagonists and nebulous conflagrations are invariably more nourishing than the sanitized ones. Of course, whether Star Wars had any business being this beclouded is up for debate. You're referring to Han Solo, Lando Calrissian and post-ESB Obi-Wan, I presume?
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xx_Anakin_xx Registered: Jan '08	Date Posted: 8/19 8:05pm Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	I am an essentially lazy movie goer, so I liked that some of the "layers" were more laid out in the PT. I would say it was more openly revealing than the OT - but that is true of newer movies in general (not all, just the trend, moving from simplistic to more complex). That is a product of many things - growth of society, the movie biz, etc. In any case, in the aftermath, one can construct the same deep and complex nature from both films, but I think it was more readily handed over on a platter in the PT. -----signature----- I say we put together a 'kill squad' and assassinate Darth Krayt. Who's with me?
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Darth_Davi Registered: Jul '05	Date Posted: 8/20 5:24am Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	xx_Anakin_xx posted: I am an essentially lazy movie goer, so I liked that some of the "layers" were more laid out in the PT. That is kind of what I was getting at. In the PT, the layers are right there on film, in the OT, the layers are more context, laid out between films. In the OT, we get the effects of the layering of the story, and then have to extrapolate the details. We see the effects, then have to determine the cause. But since that isn't seen on film, IE, we don't really see Vader struggle with the idea of maybe having to kill his son, etc, but we do see Anakin struggle with the idea of letting Padme die, and his willingness to do anything to stop it. We see the actions of Vader, and assume the drama that led up to it...we see the drama with Anakin, so there is less doubt as to his torment. -----signature----- What the hell is an Aluminium Falcon? Oh, I'm sorry, I thought my Dark Lord of the Sith could protect a thermal exhaust port thats only two meters wide! It wasn't even fully paid off yet!
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Rouge77 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 9/13 10:52am Subject: Without going under the microscope... - Date Edited: 9/13 10:54am (1 edits total) Edited By: Rouge77
	No. I'm not sure whether it was more shallow than OT, though. It could have been, as OT wasn't all that deep. Anakin being brighter and the moral issues between Jedi and Sith being more gray would have helped. -----signature----- Recipient of the Confederation Ewok with "Rebel Yub"® Action!! Kill Ben Skywalker, the new Jar-Jar!
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Qui-Gon_Reborn Title: Qui-Gon's Personal SWC Modsaber Registered: Dec '08	Date Posted: 9/14 11:21am Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	Oh yes, definately. For one thing, the OT is really a much more straightfoward story than the PT. It's got a good guy and a bad guy. Nothing is so definite in the PT. -----signature----- Twenty years ago, there was another Edward with a strange disposition and even stranger hair that the ladies swooned over. This Edward had scissors for hands, but he was much, much cooler. ------ I agree with Nat.
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brook_33 Registered: Dec '03	Date Posted: 9/14 6:51pm Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	Yes -----signature----- I'm one of those Fan Filmers that writes a ton of amazing scripts and never films them
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Arawn_Fenn Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 9/14 7:11pm Subject: Without going under the microscope...
	Qui-Gon_Reborn posted: For one thing, the OT is really a much more straightfoward story than the PT. It's got a good guy and a bad guy. Nothing is so definite in the PT. Obi-Wan: good guy. Palpatine: bad guy. Anakin: good guy who becomes bad guy. Pretty straightforward IMO. -----signature----- "James T. Kirk was a great man... but that was another life."
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