Author Topic: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
Arawn_Fenn  10326 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 3/10/07 9:57pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
Green_Destiny_Sword posted:
Lastly, if someone wants to argue that the midis gave Anakin "potential" greater than anyone (a famous Anakin defense) well then it just makes the Jedi even dumber that the most powerful Force User ever shows up at their doorstep and they dont even have the sense to know that the Sith are back or that maybe they should pay special attention to him, or that maybe the prophecy is indeed true..etc.


Uh... confused all of the things you describe happened. They knew the Sith were back, and they pondered the question of whether or not the prophecy were true.

The potential thing is not a defense. It's conveyed by most of the PT quotes regarding Anakin's power.

You still refer to him as "the most powerful Force User ever" when he showed up at their doorstep, and at that point he was clearly not.

 

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Sinnion  531 posts
Registered: Sep '06
6893_Atari 2600, ESB
Date Posted: 3/10/07 10:25pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread - Date Edited: 3/10/07 10:31pm (4 edits total) Edited By: Sinnion
Green_Destiny_Sword posted:



"I'm not sure"


Hmmm....doesn't sound like a definitive statement of Ani's power to me at all. It sounds like he's not sure as to what it means. The bottom lne is that TPM directly defines the midis and Qui Gon said nothing about power at all. he said it's about "hearing" the "will of the force." I hardly see how this translates to the midis being a Force battery.

By Qui Gon's definition, why would a Sith need midis?? A Sith has no interest in hearing the "Will of the Force."

And if they were, Anakin should have been far more powerful than anyone else. And he's not even close. The OT quotes don't really seem persuasive, especially since midis weren't even a part of the films then. At the end of the day it just doesn't wash with much logic at all.

Lastly, if someone wants to argue that the midis gave Anakin "potential" greater than anyone (a famous Anakin defense) well then it just makes the Jedi even dumber that the most powerful Force User ever shows up at their doorstep and they dont even have the sense to know that the Sith are back or that maybe they should pay special attention to him, or that maybe the prophecy is indeed true..etc.


I actually agree with you here Green_Destiny_Sword worried tongue .

I'm going to take this a step further and say that Midi's don't affect your ability to use the Force. All Midi's do is create the Force. From what I've heard the Force is the result of these mysterious creatures, and that this Force is formed "between you...me...the
tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that
ship!"


Yoda explains in ESB:

YODA: And well you should not. For my ally in the Force. And a
powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy
surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we not this crude matter. You must
feel the Force around you. Here, between you...me...the
tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that
ship!


So lets examine this.

Life creates this "Force." Life creates it not your personal connection with midichlorians.

It's energy surrounds us and binds, o.k.; regardless of the counts of midichlorians you have, I would assume. This energy is relative to everyone, I believe, is what this definition relates.

We are luminous beings not this crude matter...ahhhh ok, ok..so regardless what body parts you do and don't have you can still be able to use the force.

It's between everything! The rock, you, me, the land, and the ship,..yes, yes and even Darth Vader...


Yoda states quite clearly the Force isn't what your midichlorian count is, it's your dedication, determination, and all that jazz that makes your ability in the force grow.


Midi's in the Star Wars Galaxy seem as mysterious to the actual characters as they are to us. They are simply the identity of where the force comes from. They reside in us at certain levels but what the Jedi believe about them seems to be theory.

Yoda gets it right by bringing them out of the equation totally!

 

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Arawn_Fenn  10326 posts
Registered: Jul '04
46079_Darth Plagueis
Date Posted: 3/11/07 4:56pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
Sinnion posted:
Green_Destiny_Sword posted:

Lastly, if someone wants to argue that the midis gave Anakin "potential" greater than anyone (a famous Anakin defense) well then it just makes the Jedi even dumber that the most powerful Force User ever shows up at their doorstep and they dont even have the sense to know that the Sith are back or that maybe they should pay special attention to him, or that maybe the prophecy is indeed true..etc.


I actually agree with you here Green_Destiny_Sword worried tongue .

I'm going to take this a step further and say that Midi's don't affect your ability to use the Force.
[...]
Yoda states quite clearly the Force isn't what your midichlorian count is, it's your dedication, determination, and all that jazz that makes your ability in the force grow.


Then why is Luke special? What about all the other dedicated, determined types out in the vast GFFA that Yoda and Obi-Wan could have enlisted to help take down the Empire?
By the same token, if it's all about dedication, determination, and jazz, why hasn't Vader been replaced by a new Sith by the time of the OT?
The answer? Midichlorians.

I concede that ANH, when it originally came out, was less than clear on this issue. But certainly by the time of ROTJ at least, it is clear that some people can use the Force and others can't.

 

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Sinnion  531 posts
Registered: Sep '06
6893_Atari 2600, ESB
Date Posted: 3/11/07 5:52pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
Luke is special because he was chosen by the Force to be special.

I'm sure the Jedi thought: Well a higher midichlorian count must mean you have a potential with the Force.

But I think that midi's were still a huge mystery to them. By the time of the OT Yoda doesn't bother explaining the mystery to them, he just expalins the Force how it is.

 

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AL_Patterson  444 posts
Registered: Feb '07
8012_Lucas & Star Wars
Date Posted: 3/11/07 6:47pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
The midis were seriously just a waste, they only made things more complicated and complex.

 

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Sinnion  531 posts
Registered: Sep '06
6893_Atari 2600, ESB
Date Posted: 3/11/07 6:59pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
Eh, I like em. It's almost as complicated as our world. hypnotized

 

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darth-sinister  43577 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered: Jun '01
24181_Palpatine Hologram
Date Posted: 3/11/07 11:08pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread - Date Edited: 3/12/07 11:06pm (1 edits total) Edited By: darth-sinister
Green_Destiny_Sword posted:
"I'm not sure"


Hmmm....doesn't sound like a definitive statement of Ani's power to me at all. It sounds like he's not sure as to what it means. The bottom lne is that TPM directly defines the midis and Qui Gon said nothing about power at all. he said it's about "hearing" the "will of the force." I hardly see how this translates to the midis being a Force battery.


Qui-gon is not sure what it means that a boy should have such a high Midichlorian count. It's not that common and given what Shmi has told him, Qui-gon isn't sure what it is that he should be concluding. He has to take this all in and digest it. By the time he reaches Coruscant, he has a theory as to what this is all about.

Green_Destiny_Sword posted:
By Qui Gon's definition, why would a Sith need midis?? A Sith has no interest in hearing the "Will of the Force."


Remember that life cannot exist without the Midichlorians, nor would anyone have knowledge of the Force. Both are intertwined. So the Sith need the Midichlorians to exist and to have knowledge of the Force. To be aware of it's presence. But because they rely on their feelings to use the Force, they do not hear what the Force wants.

Green_Destiny_Sword posted:
And if they were, Anakin should have been far more powerful than anyone else. And he's not even close. The OT quotes don't really seem persuasive, especially since midis weren't even a part of the films then. At the end of the day it just doesn't wash with much logic at all.


Anakin's not all powerful because he has not properly trained himself in the ways of the Force. He had slacked off on his training to the point that Dooku manages to defeat him in their first encounter. When he loses to Obi-wan, it is because the Jedi Master has control over his emotions unlike Anakin.

Green_Destiny_Sword posted:
Lastly, if someone wants to argue that the midis gave Anakin "potential" greater than anyone (a famous Anakin defense) well then it just makes the Jedi even dumber that the most powerful Force User ever shows up at their doorstep and they dont even have the sense to know that the Sith are back or that maybe they should pay special attention to him, or that maybe the prophecy is indeed true..etc.


The Jedi don't want to believe that they are wrong. That Anakin is the Chosen One. And there is uncertainty about prophecies based on their knowledge that the future constantly changes.

Sinnion posted:
Luke is special because he was chosen by the Force to be special.


No, he was special by birthright. As the son of Anakin, he would be strong enough. Just the same as Leia. Luke got the job because Vader captured her.

Sinnion posted:
I'm sure the Jedi thought: Well a higher midichlorian count must mean you have a potential with the Force.


It does.

Sinnion posted:
But I think that midi's were still a huge mystery to them. By the time of the OT Yoda doesn't bother explaining the mystery to them, he just expalins the Force how it is.


Two things. Luke was on a crash course in Jedi training and Luke did not hear someone talk about it, like his father did during the Council meeting.

Sinnion posted:
actually agree with you here Green_Destiny_Sword .

I'm going to take this a step further and say that Midi's don't affect your ability to use the Force. All Midi's do is create the Force. From what I've heard the Force is the result of these mysterious creatures, and that this Force is formed "between you...me...the
tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that
ship!"

Yoda explains in ESB:

YODA: And well you should not. For my ally in the Force. And a
powerful ally it is. Life creates it, makes it grow. It's energy
surrounds us and binds us. Luminous beings are we not this crude matter. You must
feel the Force around you. Here, between you...me...the
tree...the rock...everywhere! Yes, even between this land and that
ship!

So lets examine this.

Life creates this "Force." Life creates it not your personal connection with midichlorians.

It's energy surrounds us and binds, o.k.; regardless of the counts of midichlorians you have, I would assume. This energy is relative to everyone, I believe, is what this definition relates.

We are luminous beings not this crude matter...ahhhh ok, ok..so regardless what body parts you do and don't have you can still be able to use the force.

It's between everything! The rock, you, me, the land, and the ship,..yes, yes and even Darth Vader...


Yoda states quite clearly the Force isn't what your midichlorian count is, it's your dedication, determination, and all that jazz that makes your ability in the force grow.


Midi's in the Star Wars Galaxy seem as mysterious to the actual characters as they are to us. They are simply the identity of where the force comes from. They reside in us at certain levels but what the Jedi believe about them seems to be theory.

Yoda gets it right by bringing them out of the equation totally!


Yes, that is the Jedi point of view. The Sith point of view is entirely different. It's important to be all powerful. It's important a whole person than a machine man. It's important that one isn't wearing a portable iron lung. Important from the Sith point of view. The Sith believe in the crude matter, not the luminous beings which Yoda learned from Qui-gon, who learned from a Shaman of the Whills.

 

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SithStarSlayer  8619 posts
Registered: Oct '03
40005_Quinlan Vos
Date Posted: 3/12/07 1:45pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
How many midichlorians do Rancors have?

It would be be totally BOSS, if GL redid ROTJ and had Luke fall into the pit and have the Rancor fry his butt with some Force Lightning...


That way, he wouldn't whine like such a wuss when Palpy zaps him a little bit later on in the movie. wink

 

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Rossa83  2960 posts
Registered: Sep '05
6189_Yoda
Date Posted: 3/12/07 2:30pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
SithStarSlayer posted:
How many midichlorians do Rancors have?

It would be be totally BOSS, if GL redid ROTJ and had Luke fall into the pit and have the Rancor fry his butt with some Force Lightning...


That way, he wouldn't whine like such a wuss when Palpy zaps him a little bit later on in the movie. wink


COOL!

And then we could have Luke go:
"Been there. Done that, sissy boy. And now old Sith, you will DIE" - luke pulls out a piece of Rancor bone and makes Sideous choke on it!

What an ENDING grin

 

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Green_Destiny_Sword  4358 posts
Registered: Jun '01
Date Posted: 3/12/07 2:34pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
LOL. Hilarious.

 

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SithStarSlayer  8619 posts
Registered: Oct '03
40005_Quinlan Vos
Date Posted: 3/13/07 12:53pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread







http://i110.photobucket.com/albums/n107/SithStarSlayer/Rancor_vs_Krayt_Dragon.jpg

 

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DarthDiabolous  401 posts
Registered: Sep '06
40701_Anakin
Date Posted: 3/13/07 3:42pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
why do any of you think that han thought the force is just a bunch of garbage?

he obviously didnt have a high enough midichlorian count to sense it...

the midichlorians dont choose the person, they are the same fore everybody, they are just tiny micro organism thing-a-ma-jigs that if you have enough of them, in one way or another you can feel and manipulate the force...

they allow you to use the force, to feel it, to let it guide you...

the force can still have a will along with the midichlorians coexisting... Midichlorians just allow you to sense and manipulate the force, the force still predetermines events and gives you super abilities, and still has a will and determines your destiny and so on...

 

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dvdcdr  564 posts
Registered: Aug '06
14852_Yoda
Date Posted: 3/18/07 12:59pm Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
Some of these arguments have no definite answer, because in my opinion...MIDOCHLORIANS DON'T EXIST

Sure, they are canonical, but whether you believe Lucas had the prequels planned out in his head fro mthe very beginning or not, one thing is for certain. He invented midochlorians while writing TPM. Anakin is the hcosen one? Fine, I believe that. But the fact that there are microrganisms in our bodies that help us use the force is the biggest load of bull Lucasfilm has ever gave us. It was just used cause Georgie was too lazy to come up with a more clever way of cementing Anakin's-being-the-chosen-one into reality.

Science and religion (I geuss you can consider the Force and Jedi arts a religion) rarely mix well.

 

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SithStarSlayer  8619 posts
Registered: Oct '03
40005_Quinlan Vos
Date Posted: 3/19/07 10:57am Subject: RE: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
Yes indeed, they are like concrete and glass.
Both are hard and don't mix well in a blender....

 

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Strilo  32558 posts
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Registered: Aug '01
22678_ARC170 Clonefighter
Date Posted: 6/15 9:48am Subject: Midichlorians Discussion - The Official Thread
Up for current discussion.

 

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