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Topic:
*OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Sauron_18
Registered:
Apr '05
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Date Posted:
11/5/05 8:17pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Palpatine never said and will never say that to Anakin.
Look:
1)It was Plagueis who was doing these experiments.
2)Whether its true or not, we'll never know, at least not in a long time, hey, its been like 25 years and we've never seen a Jawa without a cloak, so, there GL for you....
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CuppaJoe
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
11/5/05 8:21pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Sauron_18 posted:
Palpatine never said and will never say that to Anakin.
Look:
1)It was Plagueis who was doing these experiments.
2)Whether its true or not, we'll never know, at least not in a long time, hey, its been like 25 years and we've never seen a Jawa without a cloak, so, there GL for you....
It was a dropped concept in one of the rough drafts.
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MADMARTIGAN!
August 15, 2008!
What would Lando do?
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Lumpawarrump
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
11/5/05 8:34pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
- Date Edited:
11/5/05 8:37pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
Lumpawarrump
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It's implied very strongly.
I agree with Leia1964, though it seems to me that Sidious probably manipulated the midi's alone. Very possibly with the help of a crystal. I think he killed Plagueis once he learned this skill.
Palpatine may or may not have known the full skill of cheating death. Possibly he really did need someone of Anakin's power to discover it. Either way he was fooling Anakin about this skill, and of course never had any intention of helping him save Padme.
The ability to create life is another skill entirely, and a secret that Sidious uses more as elusive leverage over his prize apprentice.
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Lumpy
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CuppaJoe
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
11/6/05 12:20pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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I'm looking for that scene in the rough draft where Palpatine says to Anakin...
"You could look at me as...a father."
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MADMARTIGAN!
August 15, 2008!
What would Lando do?
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Lumpawarrump
Registered:
Apr '01
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Date Posted:
11/6/05 4:27pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
- Date Edited:
11/6/05 4:52pm (2 edits total)
Edited By:
Lumpawarrump
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I just found this in another thread:
This is taken from Page 42 of the Making of Revenge of the Sith book, which contains storyline and dialogue from George Lucas' rough draft of the script....
"On Coruscant, PALPATINE completes his seduction of ANAKIN, who at first refuses to go over to the dark side-- until the Chancellor makes a startling confession:
DARTH SIDIOUS
I have waited all these years for you to fulfill your destiny... I arranged for your conception. I used the power of the Force to will the midichlorians to start the cell divisions that created you.
ANAKIN
I don't believe you.
DARTH SIDIOUS
Ahhh, but you know it's true. When you clear your mind, you will sense the truth. You could almost think of me as your father.
ANAKIN
That's impossible!
DARTH SIDIOUS
Nevertheless, you must decide."
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Lumpy
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D_Lowe
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
11/7/05 3:33pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Lumpawarrump posted:
I just found this in another thread:
This is taken from Page 42 of the Making of Revenge of the Sith book, which contains storyline and dialogue from George Lucas' rough draft of the script....
"On Coruscant, PALPATINE completes his seduction of ANAKIN, who at first refuses to go over to the dark side-- until the Chancellor makes a startling confession:
DARTH SIDIOUS
I have waited all these years for you to fulfill your destiny... I arranged for your conception. I used the power of the Force to will the midichlorians to start the cell divisions that created you.
ANAKIN
I don't believe you.
DARTH SIDIOUS
Ahhh, but you know it's true. When you clear your mind, you will sense the truth. You could almost think of me as your father.
ANAKIN
That's impossible!
DARTH SIDIOUS
Nevertheless, you must decide."
Notice it wasn't in the film? There is a good reason for that.
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Master_Shaitan
Registered:
Dec '04
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Date Posted:
11/26/05 5:03am
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Joseph: Pellagius in the fourth century was either a Welshman or an Irishman, I think. He upheld the individualistic Western tradition against what I would call the tribalism of the East, and was considered a heretic. He stated the main points against the doctrines of which St. Augustine, his contemporary, was the champion. One was the doctrine of original sin. Pellagius said, you cannot inherit another's sin. Therefore, Adam's sin is not inherited by anybody.
Tom: The sins of the father are not visited upon the son?
Joseph: That is all Eastern philosophy, not European. Another thing Pellagius said is that you cannot be saved by another's act. That takes care of Jesus on the cross and knocks the whole thing out. Of course that was rejected. Pellagius was defending a doctrine of individual responsibility. I don't know where it comes from, but certainly it was typical, I would say, of European as opposed to Eastern points of view. You were an individual, not merely the member of a group.
Interview with Joseph Campbell.
Anyone find certain aspects of this interview interesting?
Pellagius...or is that Plagueis?!
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mandragora
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
11/26/05 7:43am
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Master_Shaitan posted:
Another thing Pellagius said is that you cannot be saved by another's act. That takes care of Jesus on the cross and knocks the whole thing out. Of course that was rejected. Pellagius was defending a doctrine of individual responsibility. I don't know where it comes from, but certainly it was typical, I would say, of European as opposed to Eastern points of view. You were an individual, not merely the member of a group.
I don't understand where he's coming from with this. While it's true that Eastern philosophy tends to focus on the individual more as a member of a group than Western individualism, that doesn't mean there isn't ascribed a very high importance on individual responsibility. There's nothing in Fart Eastern philosophy I can think of that suggests you can be saved by another's act. In fact, the whole Karma issue is about having to bear the consequences of one's own actions and is entirely about individual responsibility.
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RebelScum77
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
2/11/06 5:09pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Upping.
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
2/11/06 6:51pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
- Date Edited:
2/11/06 6:51pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
lovelucas
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regarding this cited post:\ http://blogs.starwars.com/JediShemL/1
i so agree with this concept ......(root word - conceive) -
it's important, at least to me and my embrace of what star wars means to me, to believe in the goodness of the spirituality that george lucas, in a very intentional, deliberate, enlightened and educational process, chose to incorporate into his myth for the 20th and 21st century. anakin, the chosen one, was born of the need to return to the light, to the good, to the truth.
and that's why i love this story so.
LL
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
2/12/06 12:16am
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Well, I would tell this person that had Lucas not changed his mind, Palpatine created Anakin and that would've been that. It doesn't matter where Anakin comes from. He's still the Chosen One.
"There is a hint in the movie that there was a Sith lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the Midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the Midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the Midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force."
--George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine, 2005.
The official stance seems to be that Plagueis told Sidious that he could create life and cheat death. This scared Sidious as he feared that Plaugeis would replace him. Sidious then killed Plaguies. Maul was already being trained at the time. When Sidious learns of Anakin following the Battle of Naboo, it's very clear that he wants him to replace Maul in the long run. What's not certain is if Palpatine decided to create Anakin or if Plagueis had set it in motion, which took a while to occur. Or if the Force chose to go to work, ten years prior to the Battle of Naboo.
But had Lucas kept to his initial story, there would be no room for doubt that Palpatine didn't create Anakin. He opted to change it for reasons that are only vaguely clear. Not saying that your belief has to be wrong. There is no right or wrong answer regarding Anakin's origin, unless or until Lucas spills it and thus makes it official
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Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Dean1138
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
3/8/06 8:31pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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"Everything written here is a theory based on what is wanted, rather than facts. Plagueis died and Anakin was born 15 years later. Your theory doesn't make sense"
No it makes much more sense to suggest that the force just . . . created him!
Plaguis could have died 50 years before Anakin was born - still doesn't mean that Anakin was therefore only created through the "will of the force". Who says that it was Plagueis that created him anyway. From my recollections the film just states that Plagueis simply learned the secret to create life. This alone allows us to consider that it is possible in this GFFA for a child to be born without the bonding of a male & female in the usual way - and not through the "will of the force".
As Sinister stated maybe creating life in this kind of way takes a little time. Maybe it takes 15 years for the energies, or the midichlorians - or whatever to bond to start the process of actual conception. Who knows?
Another theory could be that Sidious tried to create life 10 years before the Naboo Battle in the way Plagueis had trained him. Even using the force and all the dark powers at his command he is unsuccessful - seemingly - however, on a desert planet not too far from Naboo a child is unexplainably conceived. 10 years later Sidious hears about this child who has apparently been immaculately conceived - from a neighbouring system. He puts two & two together and decides he will watch over him with "great interest!"
I realise that this is all just speculation and conjecture but at the same time I find it more logical to beleive that something like this may have happened as opposed to the pure "will of the force"!
: )
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
3/9/06 12:33pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Precisely. That's how the bios for the three characters are written, more or less.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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DARTHVENGERDARTHSEAR
Registered:
Jun '02
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Date Posted:
3/20/06 1:40pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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I personally think Plagueis created Anakin. And the reason why he did it is because he either sensed, or discovered through other means, that Sidious had betrayed him by training an apprentice who would later become Darth Maul. It doesn't say anywhere when Darth Maul had been found, and trained, or even how old he is other than the fact he was young when he died. Plagueis sensed betrayal and he acted, using the knowledge he alone had obtained. Because Sidious had also discovered his master's knowledge of his plan to usurp him, and his jealousy of his master's power to manipulate life, he decided to murder him before his apprentice was ready. I also think Plageuis created Palpatine, which was his first succeeded attempt at creating life.
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ravennomad
Registered:
Mar '06
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Date Posted:
3/20/06 2:13pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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No one is quite sure how Darth Sidious came across his young and deadly apprentice. He was raised from an early age to be a weapon, tempered by harsh, abusive training to become an incredible warrior. Once a Zabrak from Iridonia, Maul abandoned all trace of his former identity when he took on his Sith name. So complete was his devotion that he even endured the agony of having intricate Sith tattoos applied to his entire body.
In the interests of concealing the Sith presence from the Jedi, all of Maul's missions were executed from the shadows. Though Maul longed to reveal the Sith menace to the Jedi, his devotion to his master was absolute so as not to question Sidious' timing. Maul had assassinated a number of enemies whose activities encroached on the growing Sith agenda. The dark warrior even infiltrated the heart of the galaxy's biggest criminal organization, Black Sun, killed, and escaped unscathed.
Maul had a wide array of tools to help him in his missions. His Sith Infiltrator is a modified star courier vessel equipped with a cloaking device. His Sith speeder is lean and unarmed, pared down to the bare essentials to deliver maximum speed. In the past, he has even employed a modified protocol droid as an assassin, C-3PX.
I think Darth Plagueis Forsaw his death and maybe planned on killing Palpatine but Palpatine beat him to the punch and killed Plagueis, Maybe Palpatine saw Plagueis use the force to create life in Shmi Skywalker and decided to take action....but i do believe either Sidious or Plagueis created Life who became Anakin Skywalker, lets not forget though Dooku trained GG in the ways of the Force and trained Asajj Ventress as well so i think there might have been exceptions to the rule, also maybe Palpatine needed a full grown Sith for reasons such as killing Jedi and doing these secret missions, Maybe Palpatine would have killed Maul or at least set him up to die much like he did for Dooku.....
"We will watch your career with great interest"
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