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Topic:
*OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
8/29/06 5:12pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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RamRed posted:
I get the feeling that either many fans were uncomfortable with Shmi's description of how Anakin was born, because it seemed similar to Jesus Christ's origins . . . or else they're using this whole "Plageuis created Anakin" nonsense as an excuse to explain Anakin's turn to the dark side. It seems as if they cannot deal with the possibility of an innocent boy becoming a Sith Lord. So they grab at an idea that would hint that Anakin might have an inherent disposition toward darkness.
Having more midichlorians than Yoda is not the same as an "inherent disposition toward darkness". The dark side involves a choice. It's not a magic voodoo curse you can lay on a child. I think one reason GL refrained from definitively saying the Sith created Anakin is because he noticed people making the assumption that such an event would absolve Anakin of his future choices. In the Rolling Stone interview GL makes it clear that's not the way it is.
Anyone who "cannot deal with the possibility of an innocent boy becoming a Sith Lord" must have missed a couple of films entitled "THE PHANTOM MENACE" and "REVENGE OF THE SITH". That is the story. Anakin's origin, though it helps to explain certain things in TPM, does not change this.
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Strilo
Title: PT Manager
on reduced time
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
4/19/07 5:26pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Up for current discussion
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
4/19/07 6:18pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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I see four possible alternatives for Anakin's origins:
1) The 'light side' of the force reached out and touched Shmi to conceived him.
2) The Sith (that being Plagueis), using the dark side, manipulated the force to conceive him.
3) Natural conception, but Shmi is unable to remember who, when or why.
4) Natural conception, and Shmi knows who but is not telling
I'm partial to a 'dark horse' explanation -- #3. Prove me wrong!!!!! 
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AL_Patterson
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
4/19/07 6:22pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Obi-Chron posted:
I see four possible alternatives for Anakin's origins:
1) The 'light side' of the force reached out and touched Shmi to conceived him.
2) The Sith (that being Plagueis), using the dark side, manipulated the force to conceive him.
3) Natural conception, but Shmi is unable to remember who, when or why.
4) Natural conception, and Shmi knows who but is not telling
I'm partial to a 'dark horse' explanation -- #3. Prove me wrong!!!!!
If we had just seen the PT and the OT had yet to be made, I bet most people would say #2, including myself. But we have the OT, and we know that Anakin ends up balancing the force and fulfilling the prophecy, therefore I doubt a Sith created him.
I'm inclined to say #4, she told Qui-Gon that lie because she slept with so many men. 
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
4/19/07 6:28pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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So we're working on Shmi, the seductive slave tramp -- no way of knowing WHO Ani's father might be?????? 
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AL_Patterson
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Feb '07
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Date Posted:
4/19/07 6:34pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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She should have gone to Mo-Rai Pul-Vich
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 5:43am
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Obi-Chron posted:
1) The 'light side' of the force reached out and touched Shmi to conceived him.
2) The Sith (that being Plagueis), using the dark side, manipulated the force to conceive him.
3) Natural conception, but Shmi is unable to remember who, when or why.
4) Natural conception, and Shmi knows who but is not telling
I say #3 because Shmi acts nervous about the boy. It is mentioned earlier in this resurrected thread that as a slave, Shmi could have been impregnated when her tracking device was 'installed' or during any other time her master wished. She was a slave -- she had to obey. By being unconscious, Shmi doesn't remember having any fun in the process.
QUI-GON : The Force is unusally strong with him, that much is clear. Who was his father?
SHMI : There was no father, that I know of...I carried him, I gave him birth... I can't explain what happened. Can you help him?
These are not definitive words, but provide a possible 'hint' that Shmi does not totally abandon the idea that there 'could have been' a father. Of course Qui-Gon could likely sense if she were lying, so my take is that Shmi just could not remember. Shmi definitely rules out a 'religious-type revelation' that she is mystically pregnant. She just is, and can't say how or why!
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 11:04am
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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AL_Patterson posted:
Obi-Chron posted:
I see four possible alternatives for Anakin's origins:
1) The 'light side' of the force reached out and touched Shmi to conceived him.
2) The Sith (that being Plagueis), using the dark side, manipulated the force to conceive him.
3) Natural conception, but Shmi is unable to remember who, when or why.
4) Natural conception, and Shmi knows who but is not telling
I'm partial to a 'dark horse' explanation -- #3. Prove me wrong!!!!!
If we had just seen the PT and the OT had yet to be made, I bet most people would say #2, including myself. But we have the OT, and we know that Anakin ends up balancing the force and fulfilling the prophecy, therefore I doubt a Sith created him.
I know a lot of people don't want to put stock in Lucas' quotes, but he has said the following.
"There is a hint in the movie that there was a Sith lord who had the power to create life. But it's left unsaid: Is Anakin a product of a super-Sith who influenced the Midichlorians to create him, or is he simply created by the Midichlorians to bring forth a prophecy, or was he created by the Force through the Midichlorians? It's left up to the audience to decide. How he was born ultimately has no relationship to how he dies, because in the end, the prophecy is true: Balance comes back to the Force."
--George Lucas, Rolling Stone Magazine, 2005.
So it really doesn't matter if the Sith created him, he still brings balance.
Obi-Chron posted:
I say #3 because Shmi acts nervous about the boy. It is mentioned earlier in this resurrected thread that as a slave, Shmi could have been impregnated when her tracking device was 'installed' or during any other time her master wished. She was a slave -- she had to obey. By being unconscious, Shmi doesn't remember having any fun in the process.
QUI-GON : The Force is unusally strong with him, that much is clear. Who was his father?
SHMI : There was no father, that I know of...I carried him, I gave him birth... I can't explain what happened. Can you help him?
These are not definitive words, but provide a possible 'hint' that Shmi does not totally abandon the idea that there 'could have been' a father. Of course Qui-Gon could likely sense if she were lying, so my take is that Shmi just could not remember. Shmi definitely rules out a 'religious-type revelation' that she is mystically pregnant. She just is, and can't say how or why!
Actually, she doesn't rule out a "religious-type revelation". Religion isn't really a factor in Star Wars, except for the Force and that's if you view it as a religion. While Lucas did not go into details as to whether Shmi knew if she had her virginity intact or not, it's safe to assume from the film that this was totally mystifying for her. I think we can trace it to either the Force or the Sith. I just don't see a point in options three and four, since neither one is ever explored or even suggested. They don't change who Anakin is and what he does, but to me, they don't go anywhere that the first two do.
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Strilo
Title: PT Manager
on reduced time
Registered:
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 2:27pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Obi-Chron posted:
QUI-GON : The Force is unusally strong with him, that much is clear. Who was his father?
SHMI : There was no father, that I know of...I carried him, I gave him birth... I can't explain what happened. Can you help him?
These are not definitive words, but provide a possible 'hint' that Shmi does not totally abandon the idea that there 'could have been' a father. Of course Qui-Gon could likely sense if she were lying, so my take is that Shmi just could not remember. Shmi definitely rules out a 'religious-type revelation' that she is mystically pregnant. She just is, and can't say how or why!
She does not say "that I know of." She only says "There was no father. I carried him..."
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Arawn_Fenn
Registered:
Jul '04
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 5:10pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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ravennomad posted:
I got this from Wikipedia.com
has been suggested in Vader: The Ultimate Guide that Plagueis, in his experimentation with the Force, created Anakin Skywalker in the womb of his mother, Shmi. According to Star Wars: The New Essential Chronology, Darth Plagueis indeed knew how to create life, and sought to create a replacement for his apprentice, Darth Sidious. In Dark Lord: The Rise of Darth Vader, it is revealed that Sidious did not learn Plagueis's secret for the creation of life; and alternatively to the aforementioned sources, Sidious muses that Anakin is the "one created by the Force itself to restore balance".
I was the author for some of that Wikipedia material... specifically the "alternatively to the aforementioned sources" part. It should be noted that, in the Luceno books, when a dark sider talks about balance, they're not talking about balance the way the Jedi see it, they're talking about the supremacy of the dark side.
As with most attempts to edit Wikipedia, it seems my contribution was changed after the fact. I did not leave the entry stating that "Sidious did not learn Plagueis's secret for the creation of life" ( the "Plagueis's" is clearly someone else, I would not have written that ).
What was taken out: I stated that Dark Lord implies that Sidious, if he had the power to create life, did not have enough skill to create a being with Anakin's potential.
I feel that ROTS shows he did have the basic idea behind the "secret".
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AL_Patterson
Registered:
Feb '07
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 5:14pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Basically ol' GL doesn't even know how he was created? Or hasn't thought of it yet? Or just won't tell us?
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Arawn_Fenn
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 5:22pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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pakatak posted:
ok, so I buy into the sith creating anakin. However They couldn't control what he was, the type of person he became. It occured on tattooine because it was so out of the way he wouldn't likely be found. ALso tatooine is a rough area. I think whatever darth it was hoped that anakin would gain some of the charecteristics of the people he was around, the hutts, watto, sebulba, and the like.
Anyways, quigon finding anakin was the will of the force, in an effort to keep in balance, so the jedi could train him before the sith lord got him. Why didn't teh sith have him from the beginging? Can you imagine palpatine wanting to put up with all the problems of being a father, even changing the diapers via the force still stinks, also he would have been identified by the republic as force sensitive.
I'm assuming that last part isn't serious?? Obviously, as in the case of Maul, he would have been kept hidden from the Jedi.
Also, if Darth Plagueis created Anakin, it didn't happen on Tatooine. It happened on "Undisclosed Planet", which lies in "Undisclosed Location".
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AL_Patterson
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Feb '07
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 5:26pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Ah yes, if the Sith had created him, why would they have left him with Shmi? Wouldn't they have taken him already? Yoda says he's too old just at the age of 9. The Sith definitely would have taken him sooner if they had created him and knew about him.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
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Date Posted:
4/20/07 11:25pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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Because Darth Sidious killed his Master, before knowing about Anakin. By the time he did know, it was well past his birth and he was nine. Or if Palpatine did it, he left him there as the ultimate surprise. The trojan horse, if you will.
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Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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Obi-Chron
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
4/21/07 4:23pm
Subject:
RE: *OFFICIAL THREAD* Anakin's Origins
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darth-sinister posted:
Because Darth Sidious killed his Master, before knowing about Anakin. By the time he did know, it was well past his birth and he was nine. Or if Palpatine did it, he left him there as the ultimate surprise. The trojan horse, if you will.
I can accept the first part, for Sids can anticipate the future pretty well. In ROTJ Sidious tells Vader that Luke will come to Vader, Vader will bring the boy to Sidious.
Also, I thought Sids defintely knew that Plagueis created a life form and that played a part in deciding to kill his master -- he realized his days were numbered if the force created life form ever entered the picture with Plagueis still alive.
Since Sids already had Maul in tow, he likely knew that one day the boy would be brought to him, maybe even knew he'd be wrapped in a big Jedi bow. But finding the boy on his own would preoccupy his plans to divide and conquer the galaxy. So he trusted that the chaos he would consistently introduce would somehow bring the boy eventually to him.
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~ Joseph Campbell
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