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Topic:
Doctor Who
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HappyBob
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
6/3 9:36pm
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
- Date Edited:
6/3 10:25pm (7 edits total)
Edited By:
HappyBob
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I had trouble getting into season four at first. Looking back, it was that first episode that did it. As I said at the time, I didn't dislike Smith and Jones - I laughed far more than I winced - but the children's show vibe was so far removed from the show I loved. It's hard to imagine it coming from the same person who wrote Eccleston's "and doesn't that scare you to death?" speech. I'd gotten a bit disillusioned with the show in general.
Now I'm playing catch-up from 405 onward, my enthusiasm for the (pre-2010) series is finally back.
I was actually kind of dreading The Doctor's Daughter, based on the opinions I'd heard. (I could lose several fingers and still count the number of times BBN and I have over Doctor Who on one hand.) Which is why I'm so surprised to find myself saying the following: it's my favourite episode of the year so far.
We keep getting TOLD Martha is great (even in the Sontaran storyline, when she's little more than a victim/spectator), and frankly it was getting a bit patronising. This time, we get to see her in action, and you know what? She is.
Her second farewell was a lot more moving than the first. Without the silly infatuation, it's so much easier to appreciate Martha's character, and the idea of a life interrupted, not saved, by The Doctor's presence.
It's also refreshing to see Donna being so resourceful. In fact, it seemed like the Doctor was dimmest of the heroes, complex emotional issues or not. Only at the end did his characterisation really work for me. That performance, though, was brilliant.
New Who has a tendency to balance sad climaxes with dsproportionately happy codas. I love a good happy ending, but this isn't always good for a story. What's more effective is giving the viewer a very small reason to smile. Sometimes the tiniest uplifting moment can balance out the most devastating things, because it matters more. When the Doctor said "She was too much like me", I was secretly hoping for the end credits then and there.
Does Jenny's (strangely un-Gallifreyan) revival cheapen the impact of the episode? There are pros and cons, but I'm leaning in favour of the happy ending. She's a very likeable character with very likeable eyelashes, so it would be nice to see both return in the future. And bonus points for defying the cliche. (Who didn't pick her as a redshirt?)
Apparently bringing her back to life was Steven Moffat's idea. Hmmm...
The core concepts could have been handled any number of ways, and in many aspects, better. But for those 40 minutes I was completely involved in the show. That's much more than I can say about the first few episodes. I'm a fan and I'm excited again. That's a pretty decent compliment.
And now to 407 and 408, from the quick-witted Gareth Roberts and the Steven-Moffatesque Steven Moffat. I expect both episodes to seize that "best of the season" title in turn.
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Lozza
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
6/3 11:30pm
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
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Wow, tbh I groaned most of the way through "The Doctor's Daughter". One ok concept and one brilliant concept all squashed into one episode, it just didn't work for me. That and there was no hiding the fact that Jenny was there as eye candy only.
HB - it's called mascara (and I'm not even sure how to spell it  )
The only thing that would make it cool would be if she became the Master's sidekick in a future story arc...
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HappyBob
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
6/4 8:29am
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
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Military-Issue Mascara? Why, that would be a plot hole. No, no, it's all natural.
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BigBossNass1138
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
6/4 1:46pm
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
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I still maintain that the conversation in the writers' room didn't progress much further than "The Doctor's got a daughter... and she's HOT!" That's definitely how it felt to me. She's a bit of crumpet who flips through laser beams (a scene that caused me physical pain to have to watch). She needed to be like the Doctor. She needed to use her brain. Make her a military leader. Make her terrifyingly smart and ruthless, able to inspire a following in the way the Doctor can, but have her use it to wage war and to win. Make her embody what the Doctor could have become in the Time War, and then have her slowly learn it isn't the way.
As for coming back to life, there should have been an ongoing debate as to whether she actually is a Time Lord (lady, whatever) or not. Have her know certain things at a gut level, while the Doctor staunchly maintains that having two hearts and the Rassilon Imprimpature isn't all there is to holding that station. Make it a debate. Have Donna vocalise the question of whether she could regenerate, and have the Doctor scoff at it. And then, in the final scene, after she's lying dead and everyone's gone, have it happen. She's a Time Lord after all. Don't bring her back with Deus Ex Machina, bring her back as a vindication of who she is. Don't even show the new body, just end with the flash of light coming through the windows or something like that. And please, please, no "hello boys" when she sits up. Bleh.
That's just my two cents, my "Wot I Woulda Dun" post. But it's how to make up for what I saw as the severe shortcomings of the episode.
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"A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of." -Burt Bacharach http://steamcommunity.com/id/mrneutron http://twitter.com/timbo1138 (Yes, I'm trying it again...)
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Magnus_Darcrider
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
6/4 3:57pm
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
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She needed to use her brain. Make her a military leader. Make her terrifyingly smart and ruthless, able to inspire a following in the way the Doctor can, but have her use it to wage war and to win.
That's an accurate discription of The Rani
Seriously, can't disagree with any of the above, the episode is very much a lost opportunity. However, I still like the episode as it's silly fun.
But I was hoping for a recap of the latest episode. I've got withdrawal here!
Be seeing you,
Magnus Darcrider
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Killin’ ‘em all and takin’ their stuff since 1987. Pugnantes Malos, No Hos Pugnetis http://steamcommunity.com/id/darcrider http://twitter.com/Darcrider
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HappyBob
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
6/5 5:03am
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
- Date Edited:
6/5 5:03am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
HappyBob
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As above. I can't say it's a particularly good episode, but wasted potential or not, it somehow broke my disillusionment with the season up to that point, and I've got to give it credit for that. Mind you, I went in expecting something Runaway-Bride terrible based on prior feedback. You lot saw it with nothing to go on but the episode title, and under those circumstances, ouch.
Magnus, You're far better going into Silence in the Library blind. It's best you discover its many (many) mysteries first-hand. But rest assured it's vintage Moffat, with scares and ingenuity right up there with Blink and The Empty Child. And lucky you - you'll get to watch both parts back-to-back. :-P
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BigBossNass1138
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
6/5 7:39am
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
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Yeah, Silence is just... intriguing. I'm so curious to see where it's going. And oh, Magnus: there's a really interesting Time Traveler's Wife-esque thing going on in it too that I think you'll get a big kick out of. I sure did.
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"A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of." -Burt Bacharach http://steamcommunity.com/id/mrneutron http://twitter.com/timbo1138 (Yes, I'm trying it again...)
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morgan-aleghieri
Title: Queen of redundant updates
(event manager)
Registered:
Mar '06
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Date Posted:
6/23 6:35pm
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
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Alright... Finally, finally getting around to catching up on my Doctor Who - I've got about 10 odd "descriptions" queued up, so I imagine by the end of Sunday I'll have a short list of episodic anecdotes and will start making my way through the last accumulation of spoiler blocks. Thought I'd experience Partners In Crime again, just to get back into the swing of things. 
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Magnus_Darcrider
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
6/29 7:21pm
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
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Behind in the recaps, but Episode 12...
What the Bloody Hell just happened??
Be seeing you,
Magnus Darcrider
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Killin’ ‘em all and takin’ their stuff since 1987. Pugnantes Malos, No Hos Pugnetis http://steamcommunity.com/id/darcrider http://twitter.com/Darcrider
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HappyBob
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
6/29 10:31pm
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
- Date Edited:
6/29 10:38pm (1 edits total)
Edited By:
HappyBob
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I finally got around to Midnight. Definitely one of RTD's finer moments as a scriptwriter. It's amazing how a few limitations in setting can really bring out the ideas. Sometimes the best sci-fi stories (say, The X-Files' Ice, Buffy's The Body, The Rubber Chicken's Podcast 202) are the ones that could easily function as a low-budget stage show. A little human tension is worth more than all the CGI explosions in the world.
And hey, a not-overly-cheerful ending! Welcome back, Mr. Davies. You were missed.
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BigBossNass1138
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
7/1 2:40am
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
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Yes, if only The Stolen Earth had writing even half as good as Midnight. Sigh. Davies is so frustrating...
I'll round up my thoughts on the schizophrenic twelfth episode when I have time. Suffice it to say that it was filled with things I would have probably liked a lot if the episode had been structured better, or indeed split up into at least two episodes, if not more. There was just too damn much going on, and any interesting plot points were robbed of significance and the chance to sink in by the next breathless jump to something else. I sure wish I'd been wrong about my premonition of this season's finale being an exercise in cramming in more STUFF till any semblance of a plot collapses under the weight of all its individual parts.
Yeah, I'm a hard man, I know, but like I said, it frustrates me so much when good ideas are ruined by bad execution. It's worse than just a simple bad idea, much worse.
Still, the bit at the end was pretty shocking and amazing. Pity I'm so convinced it's a fake-out and so sure of the mechanism that will reverse it. It's those damn drugs in the water supply again, Magnus, and it's more tedious than ever.
On a better note, this thread's been lagging and nobody's mentioned anything about Turn Left, which was really quite a good episode. I thought the actual writing left a bit to be desired, with a lot of hammy, melodramatic woe-is-me dialogue, but the idea was a really cool one, and I really do love it when they go back and revisit events that have taken place earlier in the show from more mundane, every-day perspectives. And it was nice to see some aftermath to those events too, even if it did all get reset back to status-quo at the end. Better than the aforementioned "drugs in the water" excuse.
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"A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of." -Burt Bacharach http://steamcommunity.com/id/mrneutron http://twitter.com/timbo1138 (Yes, I'm trying it again...)
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HappyBob
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
7/1 7:40am
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
- Date Edited:
7/1 8:07am (7 edits total)
Edited By:
HappyBob
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Forgive me:
I loved 412.
Not apologetically, as with Love and Monsters. This episode was designed from the ground up as frantic fun, and the story was specifically written around that. And for me, it was fun, every step of the way. I can't in good conscience call that bad scriptwriting. The Doctor's Daughter went the cheesy adventure route at the expense of some promising ideas, but the overarching story in The Stolen Earth is simple enough for everything to fit. Almost. (I won't pretend Harriet Jones, Former Prime Minister fit in seemlessly. Or, for that matter, at all.). It's not every day we see six names in the opening credits. Might as well enjoy the ride.
My biggest fear was that it would feel like the worst kind of comic book crossover. It's a fine line between gratuitous and justified (no doubt many people have already placed it in Category A), but I felt every party had a legitimate reason to be involved. Incidentally, this was the first time I genuinely believed Torchwood and Doctor Who existed in the same world. Bonus points for the interaction between Sarah-Jane and Captain Jack.
It's all complete indulgence, of course, but the gleeful, self-aware type.
I'll take that variety over alien fat babies any day.
Incidentally, BBN, that's twice this season our opinion has deviated so sharply. Frankly, I'm alarmed. Does this make me a bad person? Is this a horrible sign of things to come? Is this once-happy thread destined to degenerate into a flame war of Outpost Gallifreyan proportions?
Theories on the cliffhanger resolution, in descending order of likelihood and ascending order of preference.
-We do indeed see an Eleventh Doctor for 40 minutes only for Martha's Forbidden Key to serve as a handy reset button.
-Keeping with the cameo fest, he temporarily reverts back to Christopher Eccleston. "Hello!"
-He permanently regenerates under the noses of spoiler junkies and the tabloid press. (And if they could get away with that, I would happily forgive the lack of a proper Tenth Doctor send-off. The last time I saw an unexpected regeneration, I was five and got upset that the man with the scarf was gone.)
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Magnus_Darcrider
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
7/1 10:20am
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
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30.12 gets a pass from me for a few reasons, John Barrowman and Lis Sladen's performances being among them.
But the main one being that they managed to create the ultimate incarnation of Davros from a design and performance perspective. His first line to the Doctor through the static is chilling, and he's played just right.
The great angle used as subtext here is that if the Doctor is the mythic Hero of the Time War (as shown by the reaction of the Shadow Proclamation), then Davros is the Boogeyman, the one you don't talk about, the one children are afraid of in the dark. I almost wish Davros' return had been the thread throughout the season like Saxon or Bad Wolf, but as cool as that might have been, it would have tipped the hand and we wouldn't have gotten the impact of that underplayed and sinister performance.
As for the resolution, I've got a pretty good idea what's going to be the reset button this time around. As for the resolution to the immediate issue, I know what I'd like it to be, but I think I've beaten that dead horse enough here.
Also, if they do go with HB's third point, then they get a free pass from me too, for managing to fool everyone.
Be seeing you,
Magnus Darcrider
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Killin’ ‘em all and takin’ their stuff since 1987. Pugnantes Malos, No Hos Pugnetis http://steamcommunity.com/id/darcrider http://twitter.com/Darcrider
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BigBossNass1138
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
7/2 4:43am
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
- Date Edited:
7/2 4:57am (1 edits total)
Edited By:
BigBossNass1138
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I just tried to post a lengthy post, but it seems I'll have to try it again in the morning, when hopefully these stupid boards won't reject anything longer than two sentences. Stay tuned, I guess.
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"A synonym is a word you use when you can't spell the word you first thought of." -Burt Bacharach http://steamcommunity.com/id/mrneutron http://twitter.com/timbo1138 (Yes, I'm trying it again...)
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BigBossNass1138
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
7/2 4:44am
Subject:
RE: Doctor Who
- Date Edited:
7/2 4:55am (2 edits total)
Edited By:
BigBossNass1138
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(no message)
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