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Topic:
Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Amon_Amarth
Registered:
Jan '05
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 2:35pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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IMO, saga heroes are the droids - C-3PO and R2D2. From 'real' people, I thnk that Luke will always remain the main hero.
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Ani_Lover
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 3:33pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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r8hitman posted:
I think Luke is the hero, in the most conventional sense of the word. He succeeds where his father failed, and even brings Anakin back in the process.
I think this sums it up.
ROTS was "supposed" to make us look at Anakin in a different light.....it didnt.
I still (even after the saga was completed) look at Luke Skywalker as the hero of the entire story.
Lucas would have had to convince me that Anakin was completely fooled and held "hostage" to the darkside before I could look at him as the hero.
ROTS clearly shows that Anakin had more than one opportunity to finish off Sidious but he didnt do it.
He could have killed him in the hallway, and he could have killed him when Mace defeated him....he didnt.
Anakin is Jerome Bettis dropping the ball, and then letting his defense get his offense the ball back, and then having another RB run the distance of the field and then taking over on his opponents 10. 
EDIT:
(I had to throw in the "Bettis dropping the ball" analogy just for you Steelers fans.  )
You make some interesting points about Luke, but I don't necessarily think Anakin is the Anti-Hero everybody thinks he is.
I completely agree that Luke redeemed his father, thats what makes the story so wonderful.
But Anakin was very much the hero before his turn to The Dark Side. He saved Obi-Wan's butt on more than one occasion. 
If Anakin was "held hostage" to The Dark Side, what kind of story would that make??
He was *seduced* by the Dark Side. He had to turn willingly, be deceived by a lie, that's what the story is all about.
The fact that he turned for love, "NOT JUST" for power, makes him more of a hero than if he was just a Dark Side animal like Darth Maul.
I think Luke was an amazing Jedi and definitely a Hero, but he wasn't really the hero of the *entire* saga. He wasn't even in the PT. (Babies don't really count )
In my opinion the real hero of the saga would be Obi-Wan.
He is truly selfless, in every sense of the word. Only caring about others. *His love* for Anakin, Luke, and Leia made all the difference in the world.
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Icestar63
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 5:42pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Obi-wan and Luke are the heores,Without them Anakin would have never have been saved. 
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farrellg
Registered:
Mar '05
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 6:54pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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r8hitman posted:
I think this sums it up.
ROTS was "supposed" to make us look at Anakin in a different light.....it didnt.
I still (even after the saga was completed) look at Luke Skywalker as the hero of the entire story.
Thank you, r8hitman. I don't see Anakin in a different light after ROTS. We already knew that he was once a good man, who turned to the dark side. Anakin was definitely manipulated, but he's still responsible for his actions. Some people might sympathize with him because he was trying to save his wife. However, that doesn't make Anakin's decision any more rational, nor does it excuse the drastic measures he took over a vague and unconfirmed promise.
Lucas says that Star Wars is about Anakin, but I don't think that means we have to view him as the hero. Being the main character doesn't necessarily mean that you are the hero.
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lovelucas
Registered:
Mar '04
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Date Posted:
1/20/06 8:09pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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anakin is the hero lost.....i don't blame him. many others were they subjected to palpatine and all the we know that to mean would not have made heroic decisons.
the hero of the entire saga? R2D2
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Chancellor_Ewok
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 12:52pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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I agree with everyone who's said Artoo. He usually winds up saving at least one character in every film and Artoo is actually the one telling the story in all 6 films.
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G-FETT
Registered:
Aug '01
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 1:02pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Yep. R2D2 is a god.
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I felt a great disturbance in the force. As if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror. Then were suddenly silenced.
The Saga returns; August 15th 2008.
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fettmaster39
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 8:29pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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I say,
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Sir Alec Guinness of why he did Star Wars:
"I thought the dialogue was pretty terrible and the charactors fairly
meaningless-but there was story value. I found I wanted to know what happened next,
what was on the next page? In the end I thought:
why not?"
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thebadge
Registered:
Mar '02
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Date Posted:
1/21/06 11:04pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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I'm with G-FETT on this one, Artoo all the way.
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Eagle Day August 15, 1940
ON WISCONSIN!
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I would rather fight allies than be one-Napoleon Bonaparte
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SHAD0W-JEDI
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 11:38am
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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As has been touched on before, a lot, I think, depends on how you define "hero". In the older sense, a hero was not necessarily unflawed, or certainly not even a "good guy". It was closer to "protagonist". Over time, this definition has largely come to be eclipsed by that of "hero" as an admirable character, a "good guy", someone to root for, someone who overcomes and (often) "wins"...
After seeing all six movies, I think it is clear, if there was any doubt, that Anakin is the "hero" in the old sense.. this is "his" story. He is a tragic, flawed character, who could have done tremendous good but who instead succumbed to his weaknesses, his inner demons, and yes, to Sidious' playing on all of that, to do great evil... and then, in the end, he does a great good in finally turning on Sidious.
However, in the sense of who do I root for, or relate to, or admire... for me, it is much moe Obi Wan and Luke in particular, and the Jedi in general. Particularly after ROTS, I think Obi Wan takes on an even greater heroic cast, and it becomes even clearer the HUGE challenges and temptations Luke faces. Both of these characters were certainly key before ROTS, but after...I think both loom much larger.
To be fair, Anakin/Vader is also, I think, made a more interesting character after ROTS. Not necessarily more sympathetic, per se... but... more human. More tragic. We can feel what he has lost, see, more clearly, the COST of his mistakes.
At any rate..interesting thread!
Shadow
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Fat_Bird
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 12:03pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Anakin is NOT the protagonist off the ENTIRE saga. There is no way in hell Darth Vader is the principal character of the OT. Luke is. There is NOT one protagonist of the saga just as there is not one hero. So trying to differentiate between protagonist and hero doesn't change a thing.
The most that can be said is that the Saga tells the story of how the Skywalkers relate to the fall of the Jedi and the Republic, the rise and end of the Empire and the return of the Republic and the Jedi. I guess you could say that the Skywalker family is the "protagonist" of the saga.
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Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest Jedi Knight of the saga.
Anakin who? Mace what?
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SHAD0W-JEDI
Registered:
May '02
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 12:31pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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See, Fat Bird... that is why we have different flavors.
There is no doubt that Luke has more of center stage in the last three films. BUT..after the FIRST three, I think a lot of us will see those movies differently. We know a lot more about Vader/Anakin. We understand how much turns on what he does. Similarly, the Emperor will now be more of a "presence" in the last three films, REGARDLESS of actual screen time. The anticpation of Luke confronting Vader will be heightened.
So..we simply disagree. It doesn't lessen Luke any to argue that the six movie arc is VADER's arc. Nor does it lessen Yoda, or Obi Wan or the droids. This isnt an "either/or" in that sense. But the movies ARE the story of Anakin's rise...fall..and redemption. I don't see how you can argue otherwise..with all due respect!
Shadow
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Fat_Bird
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 12:40pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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There is no doubt that Luke is the protagonist of the OT. I'm not going to re-write how I see the OT because GL decided later that the saga is Anakin's story. Hogwash. Vader was just the bad guy in the OT. He wasn't the protagonist. It wasn't his story. The PT can't change that.
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Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest Jedi Knight of the saga.
Anakin who? Mace what?
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 12:47pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Anakin is the central character that binds the entire Saga. He goes from protagonist to antagonist, but he's still the central character.
"It's a downer, the saving grace is that if you watch the other three movies, then you know everything ends happily ever after. Nevertheless, I now have to make a movie that works by itself but which also works with this six-hour movie and this overall twelve-hour movie. I'll have two six-hour trilogies, and the two will beat against each other: One's the fall, one's the redemption. They have different tonalities but it's meant to be one experience of twelve hours."
--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith, page 62
The two Star Wars trilogies share many characters but have different structures. Instead of telling another heroic coming-of-age story, Lucas has crafted the prequels a historical drama, at whose center is Anakin Skywalker. His story is tragic; that of the Republic-turned-Empire, uncomfortably familiar. Anakin begins as a nine-year-old boy who is physically enslaved. He ends the prequel saga a spiritual and mental slave to the Emperor, who is his metaphorical if not biological father....
But the end of Revenge of the Sith is not the end of Anakin, whose story really closes when it merges with those of his children, Luke and Leia, in Return of the Jedi.
"The Star Wars saga is like a symphony, which has recurring themes," he adds, "You have one theme orchestrated in a particular way and place, which then comes back orchestrated as a minor theme somewhere else. There are these little threads running through things that are constantly turning events on their head. You see two people confronting the same things, with different ends. It's a rhythm. I like the idea of seeing something from a different perspective. An advantage I have in this particular situation is that I have literally twelve hours to tell a story. It has the epic quality of following one person from the time he's nine years old to the time he dies. It's Anakin's story, but obviously there are many other characters in that story- his children, his best friend- and their stories carry through. So this isn't just a tune- it's a symphony. When you do it as a symphony, I think it actually becomes beautiful."
--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 221
"None of the films have one arc-they all have about four or five of them. They have several intermingling plots. And they have characters who all have their issues. If you want to deal with Anakin Skywalker, it's a story about a young slave boy who dreams of becoming a Jedi and makes it into Jedi school, becomes free and realizes his dream. But in the process, he has to go through a lot of painful sacrifices."
--George Lucas, Premirere Magazine May 1999.
So when you get down to it, Anakin's the central character as he's in every film. But then you have all these other characters who share the spotlight. Obi-wan, Qui-gon, Padme, Maul, Tyranus, Sidious, Bail, Shmi, Yoda, Mace, Jar Jar, Jango, Nute and Grievous in the PT. Luke, Han, Leia, Lando, Chewbacca, Yoda, Obi-wan, Palpatine, Tarkin, Boba, Jabba and Peitt in the OT. The droids share the overall arc with Anakin.
We see a lot of Qui-gon in TPM and then he's just a voice and a presence. Obi-wan steps up to the plate for two films, before moving out. Anakin doesn't appear until a half hour into TPM. He's there throughout as a main character, before going back slightly for the OT. Padme's a central character throughout each PT film, before dying. Mace is in a cameo in TPM, but moves up to a more leading role in AOTC. Then he's in ROTS for about 30 minutes or so, before being killed. Yoda makes a cameo in TPM, before moving to a more prominate (sp) role in the other PT films, before disappearing for one film. Then he has a significant role in TESB and ROTJ marks his death. Luke takes over ANH, TESB and ROTJ. Han, Leia and Chewie move up and into place. Lando comes in during the second hour of TESB and moves into a more centralized role in ROTJ. Palpatine is throughout the PT, with ROTS being his biggest part. He's gone in ANH and making a cameo in TESB. He takes on a bigger role in ROTJ.
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Something, something, something complete."
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DarthDubya05
Registered:
Dec '05
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 1:34pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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we should be cheering for R2. his plan to take over the galaxy is all going according to plan..
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