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Topic:
Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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AaronKenobi
Registered:
Sep '04
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 3:47pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Too me it is a tie between Obiwan and Luke. Han is the secondary hero of OT but because he is not in any of the prequels(thank god, han as a kid would have been worse then little boba). These three characters are the only ones who consistently do the right thing even if it is a great personal cost to themselves. Owen and Beru can also be seen a real life unsung heroic characters as well even though they are not in the films that much.
Obiwan is a broken man by the end of ROTS. He has seen his best friend, in his own words his Brother, the man who was the closest thing to a son he would ever have slaughter the rest of of his family( the Jedi). But event then he doesn't hate Anakin he takes it upon himself to protect Anakins son. after 20 years of protecting the son of the man who destroyed his way of life, he lets himself by killed so that the boy could survive and defeat the sith. If Obiwan hadn't sacrificed himself then Luke would never have had the chance to redeem Anakin. The only reason Obiwan wasn't able to redeemm Anakin wasn't through lack of trying but because although he raised Anakin he didn't have the connection that Luke had to Anakin.
Luke kinda becomes more and more like Obiwan then his father as the OT goes on. When looking at lukes character the most important people in his development are two people who we only see bits and pieces of in 3 films(ANH, AOTC and ROTS). They raised the son of a stepbrother they didn't really know. They gave him the type of upbrining that neither Schmi nor the Jedi could ever have given his father. It is from Owen and Beru Lars that Luke gets the moral compass that allows him to be the hero he became They like Obiwan also gave their lives for him. Although he chafed under their discpline I imagine Luke realized how much the risked and what they did for him after Rotj. Lukes personality is really shaped by his uncle, aunt, and the short time that he spent with obiwan. He is able to do the things he does because he had the moral compass that Anakin did not have. Luke was just as tempted to turn as his father did but one of the things that kept from falling might have been that he knew if he gave in that Obiwan, Owen, Beru, and Biggs would have given their lives for nothing. Like obiwan his life falls apart but instead of giving in and doing what he knows is wrong he stays true to the light. He is faced with the same choices his father was but he doesn't give in. Luke is in essence what Anakin should have been.
-----signature-----
The only thing necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing-Edmund Burke
Luminous beings are we, not this crude matter
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Fat_Bird
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 5:07pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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darth-sinister posted:
Anakin is the central character that binds the entire Saga. He goes from protagonist to antagonist, but he's still the central character.
"It's a downer, the saving grace is that if you watch the other three movies, then you know everything ends happily ever after. Nevertheless, I now have to make a movie that works by itself but which also works with this six-hour movie and this overall twelve-hour movie. I'll have two six-hour trilogies, and the two will beat against each other: One's the fall, one's the redemption. They have different tonalities but it's meant to be one experience of twelve hours."
--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith, page 62
The two Star Wars trilogies share many characters but have different structures. Instead of telling another heroic coming-of-age story, Lucas has crafted the prequels a historical drama, at whose center is Anakin Skywalker. His story is tragic; that of the Republic-turned-Empire, uncomfortably familiar. Anakin begins as a nine-year-old boy who is physically enslaved. He ends the prequel saga a spiritual and mental slave to the Emperor, who is his metaphorical if not biological father....
But the end of Revenge of the Sith is not the end of Anakin, whose story really closes when it merges with those of his children, Luke and Leia, in Return of the Jedi.
"The Star Wars saga is like a symphony, which has recurring themes," he adds, "You have one theme orchestrated in a particular way and place, which then comes back orchestrated as a minor theme somewhere else. There are these little threads running through things that are constantly turning events on their head. You see two people confronting the same things, with different ends. It's a rhythm. I like the idea of seeing something from a different perspective. An advantage I have in this particular situation is that I have literally twelve hours to tell a story. It has the epic quality of following one person from the time he's nine years old to the time he dies. It's Anakin's story, but obviously there are many other characters in that story- his children, his best friend- and their stories carry through. So this isn't just a tune- it's a symphony. When you do it as a symphony, I think it actually becomes beautiful."
--George Lucas, The Making Of Revenge Of The Sith; page 221
"None of the films have one arc-they all have about four or five of them. They have several intermingling plots. And they have characters who all have their issues. If you want to deal with Anakin Skywalker, it's a story about a young slave boy who dreams of becoming a Jedi and makes it into Jedi school, becomes free and realizes his dream. But in the process, he has to go through a lot of painful sacrifices."
--George Lucas, Premirere Magazine May 1999.
So when you get down to it, Anakin's the central character as he's in every film. But then you have all these other characters who share the spotlight. Obi-wan, Qui-gon, Padme, Maul, Tyranus, Sidious, Bail, Shmi, Yoda, Mace, Jar Jar, Jango, Nute and Grievous in the PT. Luke, Han, Leia, Lando, Chewbacca, Yoda, Obi-wan, Palpatine, Tarkin, Boba, Jabba and Peitt in the OT. The droids share the overall arc with Anakin.
We see a lot of Qui-gon in TPM and then he's just a voice and a presence. Obi-wan steps up to the plate for two films, before moving out. Anakin doesn't appear until a half hour into TPM. He's there throughout as a main character, before going back slightly for the OT. Padme's a central character throughout each PT film, before dying. Mace is in a cameo in TPM, but moves up to a more leading role in AOTC. Then he's in ROTS for about 30 minutes or so, before being killed. Yoda makes a cameo in TPM, before moving to a more prominate (sp) role in the other PT films, before disappearing for one film. Then he has a significant role in TESB and ROTJ marks his death. Luke takes over ANH, TESB and ROTJ. Han, Leia and Chewie move up and into place. Lando comes in during the second hour of TESB and moves into a more centralized role in ROTJ. Palpatine is throughout the PT, with ROTS being his biggest part. He's gone in ANH and making a cameo in TESB. He takes on a bigger role in ROTJ.
1. Quoting GL does nothing for me. I will never be persuaded by anything he says. Especially when he contradicts himself and what we see on screen ALL THE TIME.
2. Being in every movie hardly makes Anakin/Vader the central character. Obi-Wan is in every movie. So? GL can swear to kingdom come that the saga is Anakin's story, but it does not change the FACT that Vader was NOT the protagonist/central character or whatever heck you want to claim, of the OT. He was just the BAD GUY. He was just the foil to the PROTAGONIST and MAIN CHARACTER (Luke). Therefore, the claim that he is somehow now the central character of the entire saga is total hogwash. I wonder how many people thought Vader was the main character of the OT when it came out. I bet there weren't many. You can't re-write history and now claim that the OT was his story just because GL got a hard-on for Anakin/Vader later.
-----signature-----
Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest Jedi Knight of the saga.
Anakin who? Mace what?
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RebelScum77
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 5:12pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Fat_Bird posted:
1. Quoting GL does nothing for me. I will never be persuaded by anything he says.
2. Being in every movie hardly makes Anakin/Vader the central character. Obi-Wan is in every movie. So?
You don't have to like that Anakin is the central character, but that doesn't change the fact that he is. George himself has said so multiple times and the movies are clearly laid out as such.
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CHEAP SLIT!!
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woodlebert1
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 5:36pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
luke. simple as
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TheCRZA
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 5:42pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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I think Anakin is the hero thru and thru.
Just because he's evil doesn't mean we're not rooting
for him. I mean, tell me after seeing the PT
you're not rooting for him to pull his head out
of it and fulfill his destiny.
-----signature-----
"When I give food to the poor,
I am a saint.
When I ask why the poor have no food,
I am a communist."
-Hélder Câmara
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Darth_Zoo
Registered:
Jul '02
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 8:58pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Maybe Obi won.... maybe Luke.... maybe Yoda. I don't know there are a lot of heros really.
-----signature-----
TPM, AotC, RotS, ANH, TESB, RotJ 
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Rogue_Follower
Title: Manager: Literature
Registered:
Nov '03
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 9:26pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Looking at all six movies together:
Anakin is a hero through most of the PT, but he cannot be considered to be the hero of the OT (or most of RotS), except for those few minutes at the end of RotJ.
Luke is the hero of the OT, but he cannot be the main hero of the saga because he isn't in the PT for more than a minute or so. Likewise with Leia.
Obi-wan is a big hero in the PT, but in the OT he is more of a guiding light for Luke, not a hero per say. Yoda is similar, and he doesn't even show up in ANH.
What we're left with are the droids, the only ones who remain heroic throughout the entire six (certain Threepio moments aside.) This makes sense, since GL originally intended for the saga to be about them, IIRC.
So, IMHO, the droids are the heroes of the saga, Anakin/Obi-wan are the heroes of the PT, and Luke/Han/Leia are the heroes of the OT.
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Master_Starwalker
Registered:
Sep '03
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 9:27pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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I think that Anakin is by far the protagonist of the story and the center of the saga, so from that point of view I'd agree he's the hero.
However from the point of view of the hero being the one who does the right thing and saves the day I'd say the heroes of Star Wars are equally Obi-Wan and Luke, and Palpatine being the villain.
After all the protagonist isn't always the hero.
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"Surely you must understand that the means are no less important than the ends." - Luke Skywalker
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ComicDiva
Title: FF Romania Public Relations Agent
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 9:53pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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The Skywalker family is the hero of the story...
-----signature-----
Return of the Jedi (ultra-condensed version)
Darth Vader: Luke, come to the dark side.
Luke: No.
Darth Vader: Your goodness has redeemed me. Die emperor scum!
THE END
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/22/06 11:18pm
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Even as the villian of the OT, he's still the central character of the story. The whole story starts and stops with him. There is no denying it. Everything that Anakin goes through is part of what makes him who he is. He starts as the classic hero, but then sucumbs to his inner demons and is transformed into a great evil. We then follow him during his regin of evil, as he becomes very much a Sith Lord in the grandest sense. But then he becomes obsessed with Luke, which leads to a confrontation between the two. And it is from this confrontation that Anakin's story truly resumes, as we now see that Vader is becoming conflicted. He is changing back into Anakin and he must now struggle between the light and the dark. His son's own personal journey reflects his previous journey. But Luke shows him where he made the mistake and avoids it. This helps Anakin to come back and do the right thing, after all these years. Anakin has come full circle and fulfills his destiny, completing his journey. We end with the redeemed Anakin standing with his Master and his Master's Master, while his children are reunited with each other and their friends, ready to face the future.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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CJedi72
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 2:43am
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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darth-sinister posted:
Even as the villian of the OT, he's still the central character of the story. The whole story starts and stops with him. There is no denying it. Everything that Anakin goes through is part of what makes him who he is. He starts as the classic hero, but then sucumbs to his inner demons and is transformed into a great evil. We then follow him during his regin of evil, as he becomes very much a Sith Lord in the grandest sense. But then he becomes obsessed with Luke, which leads to a confrontation between the two. And it is from this confrontation that Anakin's story truly resumes, as we now see that Vader is becoming conflicted. He is changing back into Anakin and he must now struggle between the light and the dark. His son's own personal journey reflects his previous journey. But Luke shows him where he made the mistake and avoids it. This helps Anakin to come back and do the right thing, after all these years. Anakin has come full circle and fulfills his destiny, completing his journey. We end with the redeemed Anakin standing with his Master and his Master's Master, while his children are reunited with each other and their friends, ready to face the future.
Except the original SW wasn't written as Darth Vader being Lukes father, so that episode sticks out like a sore thumb now. The movie is the basic premise of Good vs Evil, and it follows Lukes journey, and Vader is just a really cool bad guy, cause Lucas didn't know if he'd be able to make sequels, made the story a basic standalone movie.
There is no sense of Anakins struggle in the original SW, if watching it 1-6, the whole movie comes out of left field, because it wasn't written that way, and if you are watching it as Anakins struggle, you're watching the whole movie in the wrong context cause it wasn't there.
This isn't a PT vs OT fight, cause Episodes I, II, III, V, VI, were written with Vader as Lukes father, and even the the OT was always about Luke overall, being Vader's story for ESB & ROTJ does fit with the PT, but not for the original Star Wars. If you are watching Episode IV for the first time, and watching it as Darth Vaders struggle, I guarantee you will think it is one of the worst of the six, cause it won't totally fit with the first three movies, and I feel by watching it as Lukes journey and a simple good vs evil movie, it still holds up as the classic it was in 1977.
Bottom line: The PT is focused on Darth Vader as the main character, and his fall along with the rise of Palpatine and the Empire. The OT is focused on Luke's character, hence every ending focuses on him, and the side story is the redemption of Vader, which doesn't happen till ROTJ.
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Fat_Bird
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 7:35am
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Bottom line: The PT is focused on Darth Vader as the main character, and his fall along with the rise of Palpatine and the Empire. The OT is focused on Luke's character, hence every ending focuses on him, and the side story is the redemption of Vader, which doesn't happen till ROTJ.
Exactly. And may I add that Vader's "redemption" only mattered because he was Luke's father. It wasn't a case of the central character of the saga finally being redeemed by his son. It was the case of the central character of the OT redeeming his father. That fact can't be changed years later because GL decided that suddenly the entire story has always been about Anakin/Vader. As if we are all supposed to ignore what we saw and thought when we first saw the OT? Hardly. 
-----signature-----
Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest Jedi Knight of the saga.
Anakin who? Mace what?
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CJedi72
Registered:
Sep '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 7:59am
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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This is the exact paragraph I found on the internet taken from Vanity Fair May 2005 when Lucas was promoting ROTS.
Taken as a whole, the six Star Wars movies form the biography of Darth Vader—something Lucas claims he wasn't consciously aware of "until 1988." It's strange to think that this filmmaker with a popcorn reputation has spent 33 years telling the story of a failed, pathetic monster who isn't redeemed until his last few breaths. Revenge of the Sith, dark as it may be, is likely to end on a note of hope, however: little Luke and Leia being spirited away from their dark father to the safety of their separate adoptive parents. Their work against the Empire will eventually bring Darth Vader back to humanity, back to his Anakin state, something Lucas underscored by digitally dropping in Christensen's mug on the Anakin spirit that nods approvingly to Luke in the finale of his most recently revised version of Return of the Jedi, released last year on DVD.
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For anyone who thought he had this grand vision of it always being about Darth Vader, this confims from the May 2005 Vanity Fair Article that Lucas didn't think of the saga as the biography of Darth Vader til AFTER ROTJ! Come guys, Lucas said it, I didn't, the OT was always about Luke.
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Fat_Bird
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 8:20am
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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For anyone who thought he had this grand vision of it always being about Darth Vader, this confims from the May 2005 Vanity Fair Article that Lucas didn't think of the saga as the biography of Darth Vader til AFTER ROTJ! Come guys, Lucas said it, I didn't, the OT was always about Luke.
Which is what I've been saying! I just don't get why GL thinks he can change things after the fact. There's no way I can watch the OT and think of it as Vader's story. It just isn't going to happen!
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Obi-Wan Kenobi is the greatest Jedi Knight of the saga.
Anakin who? Mace what?
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DarthBoba
Registered:
Jun '00
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Date Posted:
1/23/06 9:29am
Subject:
RE: Who will be the hero of the 'StarWars' saga after ROTS?
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Fat_Bird posted:
For anyone who thought he had this grand vision of it always being about Darth Vader, this confims from the May 2005 Vanity Fair Article that Lucas didn't think of the saga as the biography of Darth Vader til AFTER ROTJ! Come guys, Lucas said it, I didn't, the OT was always about Luke.
Fat_Bird posted:
Which is what I've been saying! I just don't get why GL thinks he can change things after the fact. There's no way I can watch the OT and think of it as Vader's story. It just isn't going to happen!
Because it's his story. He can tell it the way he likes. He isn't saying that's the way you have to view it; he's saying that's the way he views it. And as the storyteller, I'd say his viewpoint rather overrules yours when it comes to how to look at the story. 
-----signature-----
Neils Bohr:
prize-winning physicist,
Olympic medalist,
costumed superhero.
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