DarthBoba posted:Fat_Bird posted: [blockquote]For anyone who thought he had this grand vision of it always being about Darth Vader, this confims from the May 2005 Vanity Fair Article that Lucas didn't think of the saga as the biography of Darth Vader til AFTER ROTJ! Come guys, Lucas said it, I didn't, the OT was always about Luke. Fat_Bird posted: Which is what I've been saying! I just don't get why GL thinks he can change things after the fact. There's no way I can watch the OT and think of it as Vader's story. It just isn't going to happen! Because it's his story. He can tell it the way he likes. He isn't saying that's the way you have to view it; he's saying that's the way he views it. And as the storyteller, I'd say his viewpoint rather overrules yours.;)
Fat_Bird posted: [blockquote]For anyone who thought he had this grand vision of it always being about Darth Vader, this confims from the May 2005 Vanity Fair Article that Lucas didn't think of the saga as the biography of Darth Vader til AFTER ROTJ! Come guys, Lucas said it, I didn't, the OT was always about Luke.
Fat_Bird posted: Which is what I've been saying! I just don't get why GL thinks he can change things after the fact. There's no way I can watch the OT and think of it as Vader's story. It just isn't going to happen!
CJedi72 posted:DarthBoba posted:Fat_Bird posted: [blockquote]For anyone who thought he had this grand vision of it always being about Darth Vader, this confims from the May 2005 Vanity Fair Article that Lucas didn't think of the saga as the biography of Darth Vader til AFTER ROTJ! Come guys, Lucas said it, I didn't, the OT was always about Luke. Fat_Bird posted: Which is what I've been saying! I just don't get why GL thinks he can change things after the fact. There's no way I can watch the OT and think of it as Vader's story. It just isn't going to happen! Because it's his story. He can tell it the way he likes. He isn't saying that's the way you have to view it; he's saying that's the way he views it. And as the storyteller, I'd say his viewpoint rather overrules yours.;) You're missing his point, Lucas keeps saying that he always had this story of the biography of Darth Vader, and if you read my quote above, it isn't true. If you want to watch it as the story of Darth Vader and I want to watch it as part Vader/part Lukes story, that isn't the issue, anyone can watch it the way they want. But Lucas tells everyone, and alot of fans believe him, that it has always been the story of Darth Vader since his notes in the 70's. Again, read Lucas's quote from May, where he didn't really realize it was the story of Vader til after ROTJ, that means to me by looking at things logically, the OT was made around the hero of Luke.
fatbird posted:It seems to me that younger fans (those who weren't around when the OT was released) have a much easier time buying into what GL now claims than those of us who grew up with the OT.
DarthBoba posted:[quote=CJedi72][i][quote=DarthBoba][quote=Fat_Bird] [blockquote]For anyone who thought he had this grand vision of it always being about Darth Vader, this confims from the May 2005 Vanity Fair Article that Lucas didn't think of the saga as the biography of Darth Vader til AFTER ROTJ! Come guys, Lucas said it, I didn't, the OT was always about Luke.
Fat_Bird posted:There's no way in hell anyone can honestly watch the OT and come away with Vader being the main/central character. Just because GL says it (in an OBVIOUS effort to later justify making the PT about Anakin) doesn't make it true. Be honest, how many people thought that BEFORE GL said anything? Personally, I see the PT and OT as almost two different sagas as opposed to one saga. There are just too many inconsistencies for the 2 trilogies to flow together for me. Also, I didn't watch the PT and then re-evaluate the OT. Why would I? Anakin's role in the PT doesn't change the fact that Luke is the central character of the OT. I can't go back and undo what I have known about the movies since my childhood!
CJedi72 posted:Except the original SW wasn't written as Darth Vader being Lukes father, so that episode sticks out like a sore thumb now. The movie is the basic premise of Good vs Evil, and it follows Lukes journey, and Vader is just a really cool bad guy, cause Lucas didn't know if he'd be able to make sequels, made the story a basic standalone movie. There is no sense of Anakins struggle in the original SW, if watching it 1-6, the whole movie comes out of left field, because it wasn't written that way, and if you are watching it as Anakins struggle, you're watching the whole movie in the wrong context cause it wasn't there. This isn't a PT vs OT fight, cause Episodes I, II, III, V, VI, were written with Vader as Lukes father, and even the the OT was always about Luke overall, being Vader's story for ESB & ROTJ does fit with the PT, but not for the original Star Wars. If you are watching Episode IV for the first time, and watching it as Darth Vaders struggle, I guarantee you will think it is one of the worst of the six, cause it won't totally fit with the first three movies, and I feel by watching it as Lukes journey and a simple good vs evil movie, it still holds up as the classic it was in 1977. Bottom line: The PT is focused on Darth Vader as the main character, and his fall along with the rise of Palpatine and the Empire. The OT is focused on Luke's character, hence every ending focuses on him, and the side story is the redemption of Vader, which doesn't happen till ROTJ.
Fat_Bird posted:Exactly. And may I add that Vader's "redemption" only mattered because he was Luke's father. It wasn't a case of the central character of the saga finally being redeemed by his son. It was the case of the central character of the OT redeeming his father. That fact can't be changed years later because GL decided that suddenly the entire story has always been about Anakin/Vader. As if we are all supposed to ignore what we saw and thought when we first saw the OT? Hardly.
RebelScum77 posted:This is a complex question because it's pretty easy to look at the Saga from a too simplistic viewpoint. But it was that simple when we only had the OT. However the PT has completely changed the overall meaning of the Saga. It is suddenly not the story of archetypal hero Luke and his archetypal battle aganist evil. That element is certainly still there, but now the overreaching story arc is that of tragic hero Anakin, his rise, fall and eventual redemption. Though he may not be the traditional hero that Luke is, he is the hero of the overall Saga. The story is not a simple one, it's not even a happy one. It is a tragedy in the same vein of Shakespeare. The difference is that eventually Lucas' redeems his hero, it does end happily like the old serials he based it off. The reason it's difficult to pin down is because of the two elements, he took a simple serial sci-fi story and gave it very complex characters largely based Joseph Campbell's archetypes, also used by Shakespeare and the like. Anakin Skywalker is the backbone of this tale, it is the story of his life, his family and his impact on the world.
Fat_Bird posted:Oh my goodness. I think there are a lot of indications that younger fans think differently about the PT than the older fans. I would think that's because they didn't grow up with the OT and don't feel the "ownership" of it that a lot of older fans feel. Therefore, they tend to believe GL's post OT statements more than older fans do. Me thinking that is hardly "insulting" anyone. It was just my opinion about what I see is a major difference between some fans when it comes to discussions like this around here. I didn't call anyone stupid. I didn't call anyone names. I didn't insult anyone personally. You didn't see me calling anyone arrogant or claiming they don't know the facts.
Fat_Bird posted:And I'm not wrong just because I don't agree with GL trying to change what the movies are about years after they were released. I don't give a flying **** if they are his movies. As if that makes it 100% okay for him to totally contradict what we saw on screen? There's no way in hell anyone can honestly watch the OT and come away with Vader being the main/central character. Just because GL says it (in an OBVIOUS effort to later justify making the PT about Anakin) doesn't make it true. Be honest, how many people thought that BEFORE GL said anything?
Fat_Bird posted:Personally, I see the PT and OT as almost two different sagas as opposed to one saga. There are just too many inconsistencies for the 2 trilogies to flow together for me. Also, I didn't watch the PT and then re-evaluate the OT. Why would I? Anakin's role in the PT doesn't change the fact that Luke is the central character of the OT. I can't go back and undo what I have known about the movies since my childhood!
