1_Sith_2_RuleThemAll posted:lol nice Paelleon (continuing the theme of Mace sharing a body, but using Boba Fett instead of Darth Maul) Mace: "Boba you farted!" Boba: "No we farted!" Mace: "Impossible, I'm a Jedi! I don't do those Sithly things!" Boba: "I'm no Sith!" Mace: "Well you worked for one!" Boba: "Hey didn't you kill my father!?" Mace: "No we killed your father, because he tried to kill us!" Boba: "Now who's being Sithly!?" Mace: "We are being Sithly. Alway two there are." Boba: "So now it's we!?" Mace: "No it's us!" Boba: "I give up!" Mace: "That's right, you give up! There is no we!" Boba: ::Wilhelm scream of frustration::
Get_in_Gear posted:JarJarPlagueis posted: According to the ROTJ novel, the Organas are indeed royalty. But I guess that's the evil, lying EU that has no basis in anything? Did I say Bail wasn't royalty? He is the Queen's Prince Consort - part of the royal family. I just said he was never a monarch. And things cut from Lucas' scripts are obviously cut for a reason, if something makes it into a novelisation before the film is refined, then that's tough luck. The Kenobi dialogue was cut. Kahn chose to keep it. That's his perogative. Shame it doesn't reflect Lucas' finished film... Besides, none of this off-topic banter has brought Mace back to life yet.
JarJarPlagueis posted: According to the ROTJ novel, the Organas are indeed royalty. But I guess that's the evil, lying EU that has no basis in anything?
JarJarPlagueis posted:Just because a line doesn't make it into the film doesn't mean that GL changes his mind.
JarJarPlagueis posted:A novel has the ability to go into much greater detail than a film.
JarJarPlagueis posted:In any event, there's nothing in any of the films contradicting this fact. So it's not that Bail is some average Joe who marries into the royal family. Rather, he comes from the royal family and was royalty before his marriage. Maybe he's a (distant?) cousin of Breha? It's EXTREMELY common for royalty on earth to intermarry, so why not in the GFFA too? Maybe she was already named Organa, like Franklin Demon Roosevelt's wife Eleanor, who was born a Roosevelt?
darth-sinister posted:I already did that.
Get_in_Gear posted:Hey, if we cut out repetition... ...we'd still be on page one of this thread.
Get_in_Gear posted:JarJarPlagueis posted:Just because a line doesn't make it into the film doesn't mean that GL changes his mind. Again, when did I suggest that was or wasn't a rule of thumb? All I was saying is that, in this specific instance, Lucas dropped Ben's dialogue on Dagobah for a definite narrative reason - he didn't want Return of the Jedi to go into the Skywalker's backgrounds too much. He wanted to keep it vague. In this specific instance - yes he has changed his mind, because we now know Owen is not Obi-Wan's brother, Leia was not taken to Alderaan by her mother, and Anakin did know about the pregnancy. Besides all of which, the novelization actually has this to say about Bail: "Your mother took Leia to live as the daughter of Senator Organa, on Alderaan. [...] The Organa family was high-born and politically quite powerful in that system. Leia became a Princess by virtue of he lineage. [...] Even so, the family continued to be politically powerful, and Leia, following in her father's footsteps, became a senator as well." That is all still true, except, of course, Leia's mother was dead by the time Leia was brought to Aderaan, and we now know it carries more resonance to think of Leia as following in Padmé's footsteps as a Senator and firebrand. So Bail is never really described as a monarch, that still holds true. His wife is the Queen of Alderaan, a title with little power as Alderaan had long been a democracy, Bail is high-born, but he is not of the royal bloodline - he is the Queen's Prince Consort. As First Chairman and Viceroy of Alderaan, his political profile is far more important anyway. JarJarPlagueis posted:A novel has the ability to go into much greater detail than a film. And I have said nothing to contest that - novels certainly can enhance the experience, I agree. But they also have to flesh out a screenplay, and in order to do so, authors routinely draw on everything approaching official they can get their hands on - primarily dropped dialogue and scenes and rejected concepts. nine times out of ten, this does not cause a problem and, as you say, actually gives us an opportunity to see the nuances of a film in more detail. Every now and again, however, something is brought in which clashes with what we learn from the films - it is bound to happen. Some stuff hits the cutting room floor because it simply doesn't work. JarJarPlagueis posted:In any event, there's nothing in any of the films contradicting this fact. So it's not that Bail is some average Joe who marries into the royal family. Rather, he comes from the royal family and was royalty before his marriage. Maybe he's a (distant?) cousin of Breha? It's EXTREMELY common for royalty on earth to intermarry, so why not in the GFFA too? Maybe she was already named Organa, like Franklin Demon Roosevelt's wife Eleanor, who was born a Roosevelt? I'm not sure that that's the case, but if you want to believe that, then fine - it still makes him just a Prince Consort to the Queen, and not a ruling monarch, which I think was the point. ---- But this is all getting way off topic, and I'm not sure how all of this goes to show that Mace is not dead, other than to divert us from discussing the fact that he is, undisputibly, deceased.
Darth_Amel posted:You gotta imagine the shock of having both hands chopped off and a lightning strike is enough to maybe knock him unconcious and the rest is "splat". But if he doesn't lose conciousness, then maybe he is able to survive, he could use the force to pull himself to safety. But if he did survive, then forget the rage over Threepio and R2 not remembering Luke or Tatoinne, or any other complaints for that matter, the true rage should be is what the hell happen to Mace, if he lived. So he has to die, right???
JarJarPlagueis posted: To say that the "Organa family" is "high born" is to say they're part of the royal family.
JarJarPlagueis posted:It could be that they're cousins. Even in England, the royal family is much more than just the queen and her descendants. Strike One!
JarJarPlagueis posted:You offer reasons for why GL didn't include certain materials as though you actually knew. You don't.
JarJarPlagueis posted:He might not include something because he thinks the movie is already too long and he needs to cut it, because the following scene is a pointer scene so there's already too much dialogue, or because the background of the Organas isn't important to ROTJ. Or it could have been any other reason, or no reason at all. Unless GL says something, then we really don't know, and he's been known to change his statements over time.
JarJarPlagueis posted:For example, he now claims that he always intended Luke and Leia to be siblings, but that's not evidenced at all in ANH or ESB. Indeed, they directly contradict it.
JarJarPlagueis posted:Strike two!!
JarJarPlagueis posted:Finally, repeating au nauseum that Mace is "indisputably" dead doesn't make it true. No one has refuted even ONE point that I've brought up.
JarJarPlagueis posted:It's just been a matter of, as one person was honest enough to admit, he's dead because we think so and there are more of us than of you.
JarJarPlagueis posted:There's plenty of room for Mace to have survived. If, say, Agen Kolar was brought back, that would be pushing it, but Mace? There's more than enough room.
