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Topic:
So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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DARTH_JANISSARY
Registered:
Sep '02
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Date Posted:
1/13/06 8:27am
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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However in the Clone Wars Cartoon we see Mace doing a lot of super jumping maybe he made like superman.
I personaly think & can accept he's dead way before I think he survived.
but I have been known to make mistake from time to time.
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MystikalMaceWindu
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/13/06 10:21am
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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Kirk Kanos, your post is a breath of fresh air, amid a sea of pollution.
I thought we should have seen a Yoda reaction scene to Mace's death.
Kirk_Kanos posted:
MystikalMaceWindu posted:
well, to add a new angle/idea to the fold,
Yoda never reacts when Mace is in trouble, nor when he gets sent flying out the window.
And that reaction that he does make seems to be in response to Anakin pledging himself to the Sith.
And so, if Yoda doesn't react to Mace, then......
An interesting point, surely he would have felt a great lose to the force with the death of Mace, just like he felt the shift of balance when Ani turned.
Think its a bit unfair to cut down this remark so quickly, GiG.
A good point but I do still believe that Mace is killed in that scene and that is what we are intended to think
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/13/06 11:27am
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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Why should Lucas show Yoda reacting to Mace's death? It wouldn't work in the narrative of the scene that it does when he reacts to Anakin's turn and later during Order 66.
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WitchKing66
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
1/13/06 3:13pm
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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mace is dead, ..... but i wouldnt mind seeing a one-handed mace to return to the Jedi Temple only to see Lord Vader and his damned five-oh-ones cursing the floor of the sacred temple with their hated feet. There he would meet his doom somehow and by a clonetrooper of the 1138th Battalion of the Grande Armee or by Vader himself ... just imgine a one-handed mace fighting with two sabers, duel-mode
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MystikalMaceWindu
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/13/06 11:21pm
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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Because I would like it to, that's the reason why.
There doesn't need to be any reason. I wanted to see it, and I didn't, but I wanted to.
I'm not concerned with narrative of the scene. This is a movie after all.
It would work for me, and we don't have to agree.
darth-sinister posted:
Why should Lucas show Yoda reacting to Mace's death? It wouldn't work in the narrative of the scene that it does when he reacts to Anakin's turn and later during Order 66.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/13/06 11:29pm
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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I'm not talking about agreeing here. All filmmakers and novelists try to make their stories work with a strong narrative flow. To disrupt the flow is to hurt the film. In this case, going directly from Mace's death into Palpatine finishing Anakin's conversion needs to be continuous. Then breaking up for when Palpatine has knighted Anakin and gone off to fetch his cloak. It'd be like having Han and Leia talking, then getting ready to kiss before breaking away to show Luke running with Yoda on his back, then going back to Threepio interupting them. It'd look awkward.
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Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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MystikalMaceWindu
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/14/06 4:07am
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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It can be done, it's the job of the filmmaker to make it work. Most filmmakers, when presented with the often monumental task of taking an idea on paper and making it work on the screen, they often pull their hair, thinking, How in the heck are we going to get this done?
So to say that it wouldn't work isn't a very positive outlook. The truth is, it could work.
Making movies takes vision, the belief that it can work, and it could be worked in and work well. There are many ways of achieving successful direction/cinematography in a movie, and the only limit is the imagination/vision.
This is about agreeing, because if you don't think it can work, that's fine.
To say so definitively that such a scene wouldn't work tells me that you perhaps don't care for such a scene, so in the way, we are disagreeing.
I personally don't see it ruining the narrative at all. I see it working. That is where we disagree. And that's fine, I'm all for people viewing things differently. And this is how I see it, and there's no right or wrong in this.
Again, this is my opinion, I wanted to see such a reaction by Yoda, but didn't.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
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Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/14/06 11:47am
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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Any director can make it work. But they also have friends and editors to help them out. Roger Burton did the dialogue scenes and he kept it in line. Lucas had an idea that we only see Yoda react here and then again here.
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Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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MystikalMaceWindu
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 12:57am
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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darth-sinister posted:
Any director can make it work. But they also have friends and editors to help them out. Roger Burton did the dialogue scenes and he kept it in line. Lucas had an idea that we only see Yoda react here and then again here.
It's just too bad that GL's yes-men didn't tell him to leave that awful BALCONY pickup scene out of ROTS. And to think, they actually wrote that up later, thinking it had to go in. Geez. Would have spared us the sight of Portman's gaunt face.
I watch it now, and still don't know hwy it seemed so necessary to Lucas.
And they cut short numerous scenes (or rushed them) when they needed more room to breathe.
Some scenes feel clunky, especially in the first half.
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vong333
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 12:06pm
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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Mace is dead, whats the big deal? Why the Ph.d type of debates? He ain't coimg back and he better not, or I'm out of star wars. He dies period, no what iffs, no fanboy bring backs. It's over. Gees  
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vong333
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 12:16pm
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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One thing I will say is that Mace Windu is the only character besides Darth Maul to be shown in the movies plus all the other media for what they are.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 12:21pm
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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MystikalMaceWindu posted:
It's just too bad that GL's yes-men didn't tell him to leave that awful BALCONY pickup scene out of ROTS. And to think, they actually wrote that up later, thinking it had to go in. Geez. Would have spared us the sight of Portman's gaunt face.
I watch it now, and still don't know hwy it seemed so necessary to Lucas.
And they cut short numerous scenes (or rushed them) when they needed more room to breathe.
Some scenes feel clunky, especially in the first half.
Just cause someone says leave it out or change it, doesn't mean that he'll listen to them. Speilberg told Lucas to change Anakin's turn and he did. But when he and the others told him to change the Battle of Naboo, he did and then he undid it. The balcony scene was his way of making it clear that Anakin and Padme are very much in love, which then plays into the story later on. That Anakin is so in love with Padme that he will do whatever it takes to keep her. And Padme points out jokingly that love has blinded Anakin, but then it blinds her too. Lucas felt that it was important to convey this and so the balcony scene exists.
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Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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MystikalMaceWindu
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 12:31pm
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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darth-sinister posted:
MystikalMaceWindu posted:
It's just too bad that GL's yes-men didn't tell him to leave that awful BALCONY pickup scene out of ROTS. And to think, they actually wrote that up later, thinking it had to go in. Geez. Would have spared us the sight of Portman's gaunt face.
I watch it now, and still don't know hwy it seemed so necessary to Lucas.
And they cut short numerous scenes (or rushed them) when they needed more room to breathe.
Some scenes feel clunky, especially in the first half.
Just cause someone says leave it out or change it, doesn't mean that he'll listen to them. Speilberg told Lucas to change Anakin's turn and he did. But when he and the others told him to change the Battle of Naboo, he did and then he undid it. The balcony scene was his way of making it clear that Anakin and Padme are very much in love, which then plays into the story later on. That Anakin is so in love with Padme that he will do whatever it takes to keep her. And Padme points out jokingly that love has blinded Anakin, but then it blinds her too. Lucas felt that it was important to convey this and so the balcony scene exists.
Change the battle of Naboo? Back in TPM? how did they tell him to change it?
I figured GL thought it necessary, but the scene's absurd. I already knew that Padme and Anakin are SUPPOSED To love each other (GL's been telegraphing that and telling us that since the beginning, it serves the story line, but we're never SHOWN that they love each other). They might as well be phoning in their performances, they don't have any chemistry.
But the best scene that told me they love each other was when Anakin returns from crash landing the Invisible Hand, and he and Padme hug, and Anakin says it's the happiest moment in his life. I thought that was the most persuasive scene between the two.
That balcony told me nothing except that GL can't write love dialogue. It was, by far, the hokiest love dialogue in any Star Wars movie, and that's saying a lot. I even prefer that whole "aggressive negotiations" bit during the arena battle in AOTC. That told me more about their relationship than anything.
And I skip it every time I watch the movie, and I don't feel a single thing is missing. The scene could have been cut, could have been cut in half, and the movie would be the same.
Really, what did it tell us that we didn't know? We already know he's thinking and acting blindly. We already know he cares for Padme and is worried about her. And if that's the point that GL was trying to make, that Anakin is blinded by love, he sure didn't persuade me of that. Again, simply having someone SAY something doesn't make it so. Imagine if Mace delivered his angry lines with a big, bright smile on his face. He's smiling and laughing and joking, and says, I'm angry. Sometimes GL falls into "no duh" dialogue.
I will say, that balcony scene could have been much better, and Padme's face should have been kept out of the bright light. Ugh.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
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Jun '01
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 12:43pm
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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MystikalMaceWindu posted:
Change the battle of Naboo? Back in TPM? how did they tell him to change it?
Lucas cut the battle one way. His friends told him that it would work better a different way. He edited it that way and the score was mixed. Then at the 11th hour, Lucas recut the battle once again. This is why the music seems disjointed. Speilberg, Howard, Coppla and others were involved in his test screening to friends. His own friends. The supposed "Yes men" told him honestly what to do. He did it and then changed his mind.
MystikalMaceWindu posted:
I figured GL thought it necessary, but the scene's absurd. I already knew that Padme and Anakin are SUPPOSED To love each other (GL's been telegraphing that and telling us that since the beginning, it serves the story line, but we're never SHOWN that they love each other). They might as well be phoning in their performances, they don't have any chemistry.
But the best scene that told me they love each other was when Anakin returns from crash landing the Invisible Hand, and he and Padme hug, and Anakin says it's the happiest moment in his life. I thought that was the most persuasive scene between the two.
That balcony told me nothing except that GL can't write love dialogue. It was, by far, the hokiest love dialogue in any Star Wars movie, and that's saying a lot. I even prefer that whole "aggressive negotiations" bit during the arena battle in AOTC. That told me more about their relationship than anything.
And I skip it every time I watch the movie, and I don't feel a single thing is missing. The scene could have been cut, could have been cut in half, and the movie would be the same.
Really, what did it tell us that we didn't know? We already know he's thinking and acting blindly. We already know he cares for Padme and is worried about her. And if that's the point that GL was trying to make, that Anakin is blinded by love, he sure didn't persuade me of that. Again, simply having someone SAY something doesn't make it so. Imagine if Mace delivered his angry lines with a big, bright smile on his face. He's smiling and laughing and joking, and says, I'm angry. Sometimes GL falls into "no duh" dialogue.
I will say, that balcony scene could have been much better, and Padme's face should have been kept out of the bright light. Ugh.
Lucas wanted to make us see that Anakin's only doing all of this, because his concept of love is totally off. People thought he turned out of revenge for someone or something. It's not. It's simply that he's greedy and his possessive love for his wife drives him to being evil. He wanted to make sure that it was evident.
Besides, people in love will often say or do things that are "hokey".
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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MystikalMaceWindu
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
1/15/06 12:55pm
Subject:
RE: So Mace Windu isn't Dead when he gets pushed out of the window...
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darth-sinister posted:
MystikalMaceWindu posted:
Change the battle of Naboo? Back in TPM? how did they tell him to change it?
Lucas cut the battle one way. His friends told him that it would work better a different way. He edited it that way and the score was mixed. Then at the 11th hour, Lucas recut the battle once again. This is why the music seems disjointed. Speilberg, Howard, Coppla and others were involved in his test screening to friends. His own friends. The supposed "Yes men" told him honestly what to do. He did it and then changed his mind.
MystikalMaceWindu posted:
I figured GL thought it necessary, but the scene's absurd. I already knew that Padme and Anakin are SUPPOSED To love each other (GL's been telegraphing that and telling us that since the beginning, it serves the story line, but we're never SHOWN that they love each other). They might as well be phoning in their performances, they don't have any chemistry.
But the best scene that told me they love each other was when Anakin returns from crash landing the Invisible Hand, and he and Padme hug, and Anakin says it's the happiest moment in his life. I thought that was the most persuasive scene between the two.
That balcony told me nothing except that GL can't write love dialogue. It was, by far, the hokiest love dialogue in any Star Wars movie, and that's saying a lot. I even prefer that whole "aggressive negotiations" bit during the arena battle in AOTC. That told me more about their relationship than anything.
And I skip it every time I watch the movie, and I don't feel a single thing is missing. The scene could have been cut, could have been cut in half, and the movie would be the same.
Really, what did it tell us that we didn't know? We already know he's thinking and acting blindly. We already know he cares for Padme and is worried about her. And if that's the point that GL was trying to make, that Anakin is blinded by love, he sure didn't persuade me of that. Again, simply having someone SAY something doesn't make it so. Imagine if Mace delivered his angry lines with a big, bright smile on his face. He's smiling and laughing and joking, and says, I'm angry. Sometimes GL falls into "no duh" dialogue.
I will say, that balcony scene could have been much better, and Padme's face should have been kept out of the bright light. Ugh.
Lucas wanted to make us see that Anakin's only doing all of this, because his concept of love is totally off. People thought he turned out of revenge for someone or something. It's not. It's simply that he's greedy and his possessive love for his wife drives him to being evil. He wanted to make sure that it was evident.
Besides, people in love will often say or do things that are "hokey".
But that whole blatantly obvious business is a disservice to viewers. I'm reminded of how there are people debating as to whether Palpatine was the apprentice who kills Darth Plageuis. They wanted a line in which Palpatine proclaims, I am the apprentice. If these same people just use a little bit of their minds, they would know it's implied. Just see the smug leer that Palpatine gives when he talks about Plageuis dying.
It would be awkward and forced if Palpatine said, I'm the apprentice.
Imagine if every scene in the movie were done in such a manner. Maybe GL can make Sith: The Obvious Version for those who can't perceive implications and need everything telegraphed to them. Or perhaps they would like a set of director's notes, like subtitles at the bottom of the screen, explaining every second of the movie.
Star Wars isn't exactly the most deep or complex of movies.
And I like Palpatine's story exactly the way it is.
And I wish that GL could have written the love scenes with a similar, more realistic set of lines. Sure, people say hokey stuff when in love. And there were scenes between Padme and Anakin which weren't all too bad. Again, when they meet in Sith, after the Invisible Hand crashes, and also during that prairie picnic scene.... that whole bit about not teasing a senator. I actually like that scene.
Anyway, my basic point is, more than anything, the lines in the love scenes could have used a tweaking.
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