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Author Topic: Clones already knew about Order 66?
Master_Tong_Yue_Quan 
Registered: Aug '04
8190_Anakin Skywalker
Date Posted: 6/8/05 9:43am Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
Order 66 proves that Sidous is Sypho Dias

 
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Lixsta  479 posts
Registered: May '05
6047_Plo Koon
Date Posted: 6/8/05 12:18pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
If Palpatine used ORDER 66 in AOTC when the Droid Army had the Jedi rounded up and Yoda was with the Clones, ALL of the significant jedi would've been wiped out then and there.

 

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Nordom  880 posts
Registered: Jun '04
8041_Christopher Lee
Date Posted: 6/9/05 8:40am Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
Someone earlier asked if the Kaminoeans know about it,

If order 66 was coded into the clones then they would have to know about it.
If it was added later the question becomes how Palpatine could get to all the clones without anyone being aware of it. The clones are out at war and the have the jedi with them, how could Palpatine sneak them all away and tech them order 66?

So it seem most reasonable that the Kaminoans knew about it. But that presents another puzzle, the person who ordered the clones, whom ever that may have been, posed as a jedi and wanted the army for the republic. Then he told them to imprint a special order for the clones to kill all jedi. Wouldn't the Kamino people find this strange and why would they not mention this to Obi-Wan? "Your army if ready and the special order is imprinted as well", "What special order?", "why the order to kill all jedi of course".

An other slight puzzle is that the clones refer to Palpatine as "my lord", is the chancellor ever refered to like that? They also had no problem recognizing him despite that he wore different clothes than as the chancellor and his face was quite different looking.
It seems like they knew him as Sidious and that is even stanger.

Regards
Nordom

 

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Drumstick  82 posts
Registered: Aug '04
6191_Bith
Date Posted: 6/9/05 9:01am Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
Exactly Nordom!

They had to have known quite a bit to react normally to that situation and to call the Emperor "my lord." Makes you wonder just how much they did know.

 
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obi1andreasen79  2200 posts
Registered: Feb '05
19927_Duel
Date Posted: 10/1/05 2:29pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
Heres A Very interesting tidbit I found in the New Star Wars Insider. This comes form the awesome article entitled "Guide to The Grand Army of the Republic"

JEDI ERADTICATION
ORDER 66

"Of all the questions that have been asked about the Grand Army, the one that has provoked the most debate is this: Why did the Grand Army obey Order 66 and wipe out its Jedi commanders largely without protest or hesitation?
Records salvaged from Kamino show that NO GENETIC CODING was used to impant obedience to this order. The efficiency with which this order was carried out was due to a genetic predisposition
to be highly disciplined-and so to follow orders-that was developed and reinforced by rigorous training.
The clones were trained to put aside their personal feelings,fears,and needs aside and obey their superiors instantly-training familiar to soldiers throughout history. That made them the most efficient army in the galaxy. Ironically,it also sealed the fate of their Jedi commanders."


Wow! I had thought this order was programmed in them from day one. I guess not. This is very interesting news and I hope some discusion about this will ensue....

 

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thechozn1  3063 posts
Registered: May '05
22665_Duel
Date Posted: 10/1/05 2:36pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
Very interesting ^^^^^^ and nice research. I always thought they were programmed but apparently not. The clones were really nothing more and droids IMO. In fact, some of the droids in the movie showed more charisma and character. I never really ecpected them to do anything other than what they were told.

 

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obi1andreasen79  2200 posts
Registered: Feb '05
19927_Duel
Date Posted: 10/1/05 2:44pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
The cool thing about it is that I feel it answers the question of whether or not the Kaminioans knew about this treacherous command when they constructed the Army. In AOTC they do tell Obi Wan that they will take ANY order without question, but I doubt this means they knew about Order 66. Now the question is...where did the clones learn this order? IMO...it's not a specific order against Jedi...it is to take out the General of their group in case of treason or insurrection. In the case of the Clone Wars...the generals were mainly Jedi,so this worked out extremely well for Palpatine.

 

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Get_in_Gear  5101 posts
Registered: Nov '04
7389_WED Treadwell Droid
Date Posted: 10/1/05 2:59pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
I must admit, I never felt that the clones were "programmed".
They are humans, not robots.
What is said in the Insider seems to be how I've always looked at it - it is expressed in AOTC that the clones are genetically engineered to be utterly obedient.

You could say thay are the "real deal" - they don't have "silly-clone implants".

grin

 

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obi1andreasen79  2200 posts
Registered: Feb '05
19927_Duel
Date Posted: 10/1/05 3:03pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
Some people thought the "flash" training we saw them recieving in AOTC was also where order 66 was programmed. I agree they aren't droids....but they were programmed. They had to cram all sorts of knowledge into the clones because they grew at twice the rate of normal men.

 

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Get_in_Gear  5101 posts
Registered: Nov '04
7389_WED Treadwell Droid
Date Posted: 10/1/05 3:09pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
obi1andreasen79 posted:
Some people thought the "flash" training we saw them recieving in AOTC was also where order 66 was programmed. I agree they aren't droids....but they were programmed. They had to cram all sorts of knowledge into the clones because they grew at twice the rate of normal men.


True, but it is still learned - it is just intensive learning.
Their growth is accelerated.
Their experience and learning is accelerated accordingly - I think that is all that was implied in AOTC, IMO.

 

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Starwars_1977-1983  1217 posts
Registered: Sep '04
14875_Star Destroyer
Date Posted: 10/1/05 3:33pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
The thing that may trouble the viewer is that Darth Sidious says "the time has come", and the clone troopers, as they excute the order, nod at each other like if they knew what to do, what was to be done. Something everybody had been waiting for, the ultimate mission.

Now let's see how it works storywise :

Accepting that the clones were somewhat programmed from the start is quite a powerful idea : the Jedi accept to lead a cloned army to war, yet they do not have the key to the genetic manipulations/experimentations that were used to create the army.

It's like what happens today with genetically modified corn, or tomatoes : the real owners of these species are the ones who "coded" them. The peasant doesn't own the genetical code. He doesn't master it. In the end it maybe programmed to die after a few seasons so that he will have to buy new seeds to the company or whatever product needed to continue the exploitation. He becomes utterly dependent.

Darth Sidious is behind the creation of the clone army. The army is genetically *his*. It was specifically designed to be so. The jedi lead the army to war, trust it with their lives, rely on it, but in the end they do not really master it. And there's nothing they can do.

As for the Kaminoans, they are the technicians who make Sidious' pet project happen. They're just in it for the money. They are not in the Republic. They work for their customers ("... depends on how big your pocketbook is").
They wouldn't reveal anything to OB1. They tell what they were told to tell. No more, no less. Had they really been told that the army was for the jedi council, wouldn't they have given the JC a call, instead of waiting 10 years without any news ? They do not know the hows and whys of the plot, but they know that they do not work for the JC. And they couldn't care less.


The jedi were so rushed, so under pressure with tension rising in the senate and the Geonosis crisis that they never even took a minute to think.

And so they died.

In the grand sheme of Palpatine's rise to power as a contemporary mythological piece, the genetical coding of Order 66 seems like the most powerful interpretation possible.

 

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obi1andreasen79  2200 posts
Registered: Feb '05
19927_Duel
Date Posted: 10/1/05 3:58pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
I agree...which is Why I think that the recent revelation that it was not genetically coded opens up a big can of worms.

 

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Starwars_1977-1983  1217 posts
Registered: Sep '04
14875_Star Destroyer
Date Posted: 10/1/05 4:31pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
To tell you the truth obi1andreasen79,



I don't trust any info coming from the Starwars Insider, except interviews with George Lucas and, to a certain point, interviews with actors.


Apart from these direct interviews the Insider is a joke which painfully tries to tie everything up, EU, movies, merchandising, ... at any cost. 80% of the info coming from Lucasfilm is total BS, just have a look at Ryder Windham's recently released so called "Ultimate Visual Guide" !!!!!!! Another exemple would be the painful explanation for the creation of the clone army : Sifo Dyas really ordered it, secretly but with good intentions, but Dooku killed him and took over the project for Darth Sidious ... ???;:::;!!!!çà@@@ ?????? What ? rolling_eyes rolling_eyes rolling_eyes

I only believe my interpretation of the movies and anything Lucas says in the DVD commentaries.


I don't care what the In$ider $ay$ ! wink


The genetical explanation sitll stands. If you and me want it to stand tongue

 

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obi1andreasen79  2200 posts
Registered: Feb '05
19927_Duel
Date Posted: 10/1/05 4:48pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
I'm all for viewing things the way we want to. Since this wasn't touched on in the movies I actually encourage that. BUT...and please don't take this the wrong way....I am a little tired of people bashing the source material. No matter how we feel about it...if it's in a publication...then thats the way it is. Calling it BS because we may not agree is fine...but it does not debunk it.
With all due respect I brought this info to light to discuss what it means that they are now saying it was not genetically coded. I did not want to get into a "source material" is BS debate. However it's a free country....but as I said...personal opinions do not TECHNICALLY make whats printed not true.

 

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thechozn1  3063 posts
Registered: May '05
22665_Duel
Date Posted: 10/1/05 7:22pm Subject: RE: Clones already knew about Order 66?
Get_in_Gear posted:
I must admit, I never felt that the clones were "programmed".
They are humans, not robots.
What is said in the Insider seems to be how I've always looked at it - it is expressed in AOTC that the clones are genetically engineered to be utterly obedient.

You could say thay are the "real deal" - they don't have "silly-clone implants".

grin


The reason I thought they were programmed is because of the Vis. Dict. (not canon I know) says that Grievious actually had implants put into his brain that make him more obedient. Actually has a few pics of them in there too.

 

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