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Topic:
Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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Darth Sin
Registered:
Oct '99
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 7:16am
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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I am one that had a hard time with how Padme dies, particularly the argument that if nothing else she had her children to live for despite what had happened to Anakin.
But to lose the will to live over a broken heart when her children needed her, especially being born in such a dark time is reasonable for any person to find hard to accept.
My one problem with Padme in ROTS, is that we do not see her enough to accept her broken heart. I think showing her starting to worry over Anakin's condition and words early on would have been more acceptable when she says to Anakin, "You've changed, I don't know you any more"!!
For me, I thought her reaction to the Republic becoming a Galactic Empire should have been much different that what was shown. I mean the Jedi had been accused of treason, of which she had no real proof, so she should have been more concerned over this, despite what Anakin said and what Palpatine proclaimed. But her response to the change in government, I expected she would have been "heart broken" or saddened even over this. She basically had an "Oh well" attitude of acceptance.
But for me, her screen time was cut down, and I really think this hurt in making her "broken heart" more convincing. I for one wish Padme had been able to see the hologram of Anakin killing Jedi, even the Younglings, or killing the Separatists along with hearing his words of new powers, overthrowing Palpy, ruling the galaxy and then choking her.
Lastly, besides her claiming to Obi-Wan that there was still good in Anakin, I do wish she could have herself declared why she could go on no longer, and how she felt she was partly at fault, and all along ignored the signs, so this is why she could no longer live with herself for this. Then to have had her tell Obi-Wan, you must take care of the twins for me, and tell him what a good friend he has been to her and Anakin. I know that would have been wordy for someone dying, but something along these lines, and anyway there have been much longer speeches before peopel died on film, ala Trinity in Revolutions!! 
Darth Sin! 
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"I see you becoming the greatest of all Jedi": Palpatine  Lamont: "Martial arts is the oldest form of self defense" Grady: "It ain't older than running" Yoda: The Force is used for knowledge and defense, never for attack
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THEFORCEROCKS
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 7:30am
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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I for one wish Padme had been able to see the hologram of Anakin killing Jedi, even the Younglings, or killing the Separatists along with hearing his words of new powers, overthrowing Palpy, ruling the galaxy and then choking her
Yeah but the thing is she knows Anakin has slaughtered younglings before so I dont know why she would be shocked.When she steps on Mustafar its like she gives him room to make an excuse. She shouldve came to Mustafar not with a Obi-Wan said you slaughtered younglings but a why did you do that considering youve done this before just my opinion
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"Chancellor Palpatine Sith Lords are our specialty." Kenobi
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 12:54pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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Padme has become too attached to Anakin. Thus when he turns evil and does what he does, she finds that she cannot live without him. It's interesting cause of what she said in AOTC.
ANAKIN: "Don't be afraid."
PADMÉ: "I'm not afraid to die. I've been dying a little bit
each day since you came back into my life."
ANAKIN: "What are you talking about?"
PADMÉ: "I love you."
ANAKIN: "You love me?! I thought we decided not to fall in
love. That we would be forced to live a lie. That it would destroy our lives..."
PADMÉ: "I think our lives are about to be destroyed anyway.
I truly, deeply love you, and before we die I want you to know."
She can't accept a life without him. The funamental flaw in attachments. Unlike Anakin, she's not willing to do everything to keep him alive. Instead, she falls apart at the prospect of his transformation into a monster.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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darth_mami
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 3:06pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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I agree, darth-sinister. She just can't live without him. For all the her character strengh, she shows that she is weak when ot comes to Anakin. She lets herself fall in love with him, and marries him. Her love for him was something she just couldn't control, it consumed her the same way it consumed Anakin. She was even willing to ignore everything he has done and run away with him, she told him so in Mustafar. She wanted him that bad.
darth_sin, I agree with you that I would have like to see more of Padme feeling there was something wrong with him, and just ignoring it. I just can't believe Padme didn't notice anything was going on with him, that something was wrong. She could have done more, IMO. Also, I loved all that you proposed for her to say to Obi-Wan, that would have been great.
rebel_scum77, I love your analysis of archetypes, it gives the story more depth and makes it ver interesting.
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Padame
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 3:26pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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because he turned against me,and because if he killed all those baby Jedi,what would keep him from killing ours?
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NeoBaggins
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 7:20pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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Well, that's cool Rebelscum. If you really feel that these films represent such aspects, so be it. I myself find it strange that people who appreciate these very rich and mythologically themed elements of art, can find STAR WARS to be something other than, not that deep. If these films had so many architypes and so much depth, critics would'nt crap all over them. They can barely reveiw a kids movie without thinking its supposed to convey some operatic lining of a theatrical masterpiece. If STAR WARS was that deep, they would know. They are experts on the subject and pan movies to death because of it.
Some guy expresses his veiws on everything under the sun with common words like, "cool", "awsome", "owned", "rocked", "sucked", and the like. Then all of a sudden he starts talking about architypes and mythology. Please.
I will give you the respect of not accussing you exclusively Rebelscum but Lucas DOES own more Parakeets than a Pirate.
Padme's death as well as her character in general is pathetic. The broken-heart scene cements this idea.
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You hear that? That's the sound of inevitability.
You hear that? That's the A train.
You hear that? That's the sound of a thousand terrible things heading this way.
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TheCRZA
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 7:29pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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I think we are forgetting that GL is all about homage to cinema of yesteryear. He is making a new myth based on age old tenets. And sorry folks, them tenets is sexist.
Padme is not a character, she is a plot device. All of the SW women are. Even Leia.
Leia only serves as a means to make Han good and later make Luke confront Vader to save her.
Now, as far as her heart being broken, she foreshadows her own demise on Mustafar.
"Don't go where I can't follow." What do you think she means? She can't face
a world where she is raising the children of a monster. And i think she knew that
obi wan would defeat him.
People are oft offended by her weakness in ROTS, but i ask, when was she ever all that
strong? she is naively corraled into traps and intrigues engineered by Sids the entire
PT. She is just written and conceived of poorly. No wonder the performance was
less than distinguished.
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"When I give food to the poor,
I am a saint.
When I ask why the poor have no food,
I am a communist."
-Hélder Câmara
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THEFORCEROCKS
Registered:
Nov '04
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 8:02pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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Leia only serves as a means to make Han good and later make Luke confront Vader to save her.
No I think Lucas said the children are born to help redeem their father. Leia and Luke were born to take down the empire and Luke to win back his fathers soul from the darkside and Palpatine.
Now, as far as her heart being broken, she foreshadows her own demise on Mustafar.
"Don't go where I can't follow." What do you think she means? She can't face
a world where she is raising the children of a monster.
Well I do remember in the novel Padme telling Bail that she might not be around for very long, I think she knew the end was near.
And i think she knew that obi wan would defeat him.
I dont think she knew that.
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"Chancellor Palpatine Sith Lords are our specialty." Kenobi
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RebelScum77
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 8:24pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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Critics aren't crapping all over RoTS, it's been very well received. Probably the most intelligent review I've read is Stephen Hunter's from the Washington Post. However, this isn't about the critics. It's about how you can personally indentify with the story. It can be appreciated on a variety of levels, that's Lucas' genius. Children understand and accept it on one level and a Master's student in English can understand it on another. I can watch the films as pure entertainment or I can watch them as a study in hero mythology.
Padme's death is pathetic from your point of view. But from my point of view, it works perfectly on the level it was supposed to, and I figured it out all by myself.
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CHEAP SLIT!!
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DARTHCLANDESTINE
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 9:30pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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Rebelscum, what was your opinion when Padme arrives at Mustafar, and just upon arrival, she puts her hand on her head. What do you think she was thinking?
To me, that moment she is fretful that all that she heard is true, and realizes that all that she held dear may have really fallen apart. Finally when Anakin reveals his deeds, she's truly distraught that her worst fears have indeed come true, hence broken hearted. Time for her to depart, and to "let go".
Anyway, I was one of the unspoiled (not knowing whether Padme dies on screen or not). When she finally breathes her last, I was thinking that this was exactly what right for such tragedy, but saying words of hope at the end.
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The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope -- George Lucas
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RebelScum77
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Aug '03
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 9:50pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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DARTHCLANDESTINE posted:
Rebelscum, what was your opinion when Padme arrives at Mustafar, and just upon arrival, she puts her hand on her head. What do you think she was thinking?
To me, that moment she is fretful that all that she heard is true, and realizes that all that she held dear may have really fallen apart. Finally when Anakin reveals his deeds, she's truly distraught that her worst fears have indeed come true, hence broken hearted. Time for her to depart, and to "let go".
Anyway, I was one of the unspoiled (not knowing whether Padme dies on screen or not). When she finally breathes her last, I was thinking that this was exactly what right for such tragedy, but saying words of hope at the end.
I pretty much agree with you. She's torn- she trusts Obi-Wan implicitly, but cannot let herself believe that Anakin would do such things. She is scared of how she might find him and knows in her heart that something is not right. They have a symbiotic relationship and that kind of connection- she always knows when something isn't quite right with him. But of course, like Anakin, she is blinded by love and when she sees him coming running towards her, she momentarily thinks that is her Anakin running to greet her. It's not until they start talking that she realizes Obi-Wan was right, and she futilely but desperately tries to get him back. At the sight of Obi-Wan he completely loses himself, and in a way, so does she through his Force choke of her. Their fates are intertwined and this is clearly shown in the film.
I was unspoiled, but knew she would die, as all characters of her type do. But I was surprised at Anakin's involvement in it and just how well it worked. And while I expected Padme to remain loyal to him until the very end, I never expected to hear her say, "there is still good in him." It's brilliant.
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CHEAP SLIT!!
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JediStarKiller
Registered:
Jun '05
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 10:15pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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Why does Padme get heartbroken?
Well it couldn't be that the man she loves turns completely evil and starts killing everyone...then almost chokes her to death...could that be it?
Anakin was blind. All he had were delusions of granduer.
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I find your lack of faith disturbing, fanboy.
Tatooine 23
Member of Official Obi-Wan Fan Club
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DARTHCLANDESTINE
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/21/05 10:28pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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She is scared of how she might find him and knows in her heart that something is not right
Exactly, my feeling 
she futilely but desperately tries to get him back
You know, there's something about that scene which reminds me of Leia's reaction to Luke desire to face Vader:
"No! Luke, run away, far away. If he can feel your presence, then leave this place. I wish I could go with you." - She's concerned for his life, and that he should just get away from it all.
While in ROTS, Padme says to Anakin/Vader: "Come away with me. Help me raise our child. Leave everything else behind while we still can"
Both instances the ladies, want the men to just avoid coming head on to trouble, with all that has happened.
Its a bit of an inverse (in addition to their relationship, but that's another thread) wherein Luke says he can bring his father back to the good side, while Anakin says he can destroy the Emperor.
Both instances the ladies were said to be strong "but cannot follow on the men's path", regardless.
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The Force has two sides. It is not a malevolent or a benevolent thing. It has a bad side to it, involving hate and fear, and it has a good side, involving love, charity, fairness and hope -- George Lucas
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NeoBaggins
Registered:
Oct '03
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Date Posted:
6/22/05 12:02am
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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"Critics aren't crapping all over RoTS, it's been very well received. Probably the most intelligent review I've read is Stephen Hunter's from the Washington Post. However, this isn't about the critics. It's about how you can personally indentify with the story. It can be appreciated on a variety of levels, that's Lucas' genius. Children understand and accept it on one level and a Master's student in English can understand it on another. I can watch the films as pure entertainment or I can watch them as a study in hero mythology."
Where did I say critics were crapping on ROTS? I was speaking in general of the trilogy itself. Mainly tho little films called the Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. Unless your implying that ROTS is the only film of the three that has all these lofty and deep motiffed mythological archetypes and stuff.
"Padme's death is pathetic from your point of view. But from my point of view, it works perfectly on the level it was supposed to, and I figured it out all by myself."
It goes without saying that her death is pathetic from my point of veiw. That is obvious. I said a few post back that it was my opinion. But here you are saying you "figured it out all by myself". By saying you have, figured it out, doesnt that mean there is one specific and absolute conclusion to all this? Doesn't that say your point of veiw transcends opinion? Thats not right according to you- So, by your own logic, you have not figured out ANYTHING, you just carry a point of veiw that you have. 
I say there is nothing to figure out. She dies for no reason because Lucas didn't want to commit to clear source. It leaves him room to babble.
-----signature-----
You hear that? That's the sound of inevitability.
You hear that? That's the A train.
You hear that? That's the sound of a thousand terrible things heading this way.
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TheCRZA
Registered:
May '05
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Date Posted:
6/24/05 4:29pm
Subject:
RE: Why does Padme's heart get broken?
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Just watched ep II deleted scenes and realized how bad the entire set of PT needed
the scene with Padme talking about things that can't adapt, die. Which is basically
what happens to her in ep III, she can't adapt herself to the world that Anakin
is goin to be a part of, thus, she dies.
-----signature-----
"When I give food to the poor,
I am a saint.
When I ask why the poor have no food,
I am a communist."
-Hélder Câmara
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