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Author
Topic:
"Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
SaberLover
Registered:
Sep '04
Date Posted:
5/27/05 10:27am
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
Darth Animator, I agree with everything you just said.. And you're of course totally intitled to your own opinion about whether the line was worderd well or not.. I liked it, you did not, and thats OK. Its a subjective topic and everyone is entitled to their own opinion.
BTW,
I'm 31 and in College I magored in Film which is probably where I picked up alot of my "insight" into themes in film and things like "Deus ex machina" for instance.. I watched Star WArs my entire life, and god knows how many times I watched the movies over the course of my life time
..I can honestly say, there is nothing I know better..
I have to refrain myself from over analyzing them sometimes..
As much as I know about SW though, I always find myself learning more and more..
Never got into film though when I grew up... I now Program software.
(A very boring life if you ask me)
But I NEVER lost my love for Star Wars.. Even during the early 90's when Star Wars was near death, I was still a loyal supporter, reading Novels and comics, and playing SW:TCCG.
Today, Im addicted to Master Replicas stuff, and in love with ROTS.. LOL
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SaberLover
Registered:
Sep '04
Date Posted:
5/27/05 10:33am
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
Grover,
Re-read this thread.. There some good info you should see.
There are always gray areas.. Luke for instance is very grey at times during both his confrontations with Vader, letting his anger sometimes be released....
And Vader is very gray during AOTC and especially ROTS.
Star Wars is not 2 dimensional, and the characters do occasionally have some depth
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n8storm
Registered:
May '05
Date Posted:
5/27/05 4:21pm
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
From an AP article:
Since screenings began last month at Lucas' Skywalker Ranch, people have been discussing parallels between the final film in Lucas' six-film Star Wars saga and current political events.
Meeting the press, Lucas said any similarities were purely historical.
"This was written during the Vietnam War and Nixon era, when the issue was how a democracy turns itself over to a dictator — not how a dictator takes over a democracy," he said.
Sith opens in the USA at midnight Wednesday. Critics have applied the politics of the saga to presidential administrations from Ronald Reagan to George W. Bush.
Lucas said that a long time ago in a galaxy far away, he had read some history and wondered why, after going to the trouble of killing Caesar, the Roman Senate turned things over to his equally power-hungry nephew, Augustus Caesar? Or that after a revolution, France turned next to Napoleon, a dictator?
That's what fueled the entire Star Wars saga, Lucas said. "It seems to happen the same way every time: There are threats, and a democratic body, the Senate, is not able to function properly."
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n8storm
Registered:
May '05
Date Posted:
5/27/05 4:23pm
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
Also check out Matthew in the Bible.
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n8storm
Registered:
May '05
Date Posted:
5/27/05 4:33pm
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
He that is not with me is against me; and he that gathereth not with me scattereth abroad.–Matt.12:30
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n8storm
Registered:
May '05
Date Posted:
5/27/05 4:41pm
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
Everybody knows that Lucas has referenced the Bible (and other religions) many times, such as the virgin birth.
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BlutEngel
Registered:
Apr '05
Date Posted:
5/27/05 5:36pm
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
"Try not. Do. Or do not. There is no try."
LOL and also "No there is no why! Clear your mind of questions." Ei. suppress your FEELINGS of curiosity and critical thinking. So much for trusting your feelings.
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YodaJediMaster12
Registered:
May '02
Date Posted:
5/27/05 6:04pm
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
Once again, there is a difference between perceiving things in absolutes (as Yoda does) and acting on those perceptions (as the Sith do).
Edit: Grammar, like, what's that?
-----signature-----
This is a test of the emergency signature system. Were this an actual signature, you would see amusing mottos, disclaimers, a zillion net addresses, or edifying philisophical statements. This is only a test.
...
Free Snowball!
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BlutEngel
Registered:
Apr '05
Date Posted:
5/27/05 6:25pm
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
^^^
True. I agree with that. The main thing with the Sith is that they impose their will on others and hurt people.
But I think Palpatine is right about nothing being wrong with having a "different philosophy".
He invalidates himself though with his malacious ways.
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Dark_Jedi_Blessed
Registered:
May '05
Date Posted:
5/27/05 6:45pm
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
VADER: "If you're not with me, you're my enemy."
To me this line was the obvious liberal bias of Lucas coming through. It was definitely a jab at GWB. But it still doesn't make sense to me when I hear people compare what the Sith do in ROTS to what GWB is doing as President.
First, GWB said "you are either with us or against us." Referring to the War on Terror, meaning you are either with the US and democracy or you side with the terrorists and terrorist sponsoring regimes.
Second, the Sith took control of the galaxy through force, and while the US has the strongest military force in the world you'll notice that in Afghanistan and Iraq our forces are serving as protectors and policy is being made by the democratically elected governments of each country.
That is why I believe that while many in Hollywood, Lucas included, try to inject small snipits of their liberal ideology in their movies it is rejected by the majority because their is no proof that GWB is leading the US down an "evil" path, but rather helping to establish more democracy which in the long run has been proven to lead to peace between nations.
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Nefertiti
Registered:
Oct '04
Date Posted:
5/27/05 7:44pm
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
Dark_Jedi - in part I can agree with you. The implications, rumor and innuendo surround Lucas’s political affiliations and Star Wars abound. It is truly amazing how many incidents can be attributed to our situation, now, today. But no politics…no religion… to volatile. The line is an outstanding example of lack of choice. Obi-1 has two choices; you’re with me or against me. If you’re against me - you’re dead. What happened to …”I’ll back off and we’ll meet another day…” Yoda left the fight with Sidious. There was a chance he could have won. Obi-1 could have back out. Sith have no “gray” areas. Jedi do…
-----signature-----
.
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GTyper
Registered:
May '05
Date Posted:
5/31/05 5:48am
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
Everybody knows that Lucas has referenced the Bible (and other religions) many times, such as the virgin birth.
Virgin births are hardly specific to the Christian mythos nor the bible. Nor was the concept of a virgin birth created as an act of religious/diety significance created in the Christian myth.
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GTyper
Registered:
May '05
Date Posted:
5/31/05 6:05am
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
To me this line was the obvious liberal bias of Lucas coming through. It was definitely a jab at GWB.
That is what a lot of people are missing - the LINE is a jab at Bush. The movies are not.
A few particular scenes had to do with Bush, or could be extrapolated to that understanding ... but not the entire six movies. (or even 1)
But it still doesn't make sense to me when I hear people compare what the Sith do in ROTS to what GWB is doing as President.
I don't think anyone is doing that. But, I'm sure we could.
First, GWB said "you are either with us or against us." Referring to the War on Terror, meaning you are either with the US and democracy or you side with the terrorists and terrorist sponsoring regimes.
This bothers me. It seems that a lot of people are wholly confused as to the nature of our govenment. Let me explain it:
America is NOT a democracy. America was NEVER supposed to be a democracy. There is NOTHING democratic about the American government.
Democracy is a fallicy on the same level with true communism. Neither philosophy for governance is efficient or effective.
The US is a republic.
Now, on to your further point of that is all GWB said. It isn't. He has consistantly said things from HIS perspective, rather than on the perspective of the nation as a whole. His job, as president, is to represent the "people of the country" not enforce his will, which seems to be his motif.
Now, I'm not espousing that I ascribe to any particular American party. I don't. I think the fact that America has inbred the idea of a two part system into the American mindset is appaling.
Second, the Sith took control of the galaxy through force, and while the US has the strongest military force in the world you'll notice that in Afghanistan and Iraq our forces are serving as protectors and policy is being made by the democratically elected governments of each country.
Not to draw parallels, but do you really and truly believe these governments are independant?
Political people tend to call these forms of rule: "puppet governments".
The US has consistantly placed in power the people they want, and when it doesn't work out - we go back and redo the whole thing.
Who do you think Osama worked for? Norega? Saddam?
That is why I believe that while many in Hollywood, Lucas included, try to inject small snipits of their liberal ideology in their movies it is rejected by the majority because their is no proof that GWB is leading the US down an "evil" path, but rather helping to establish more democracy which in the long run has been proven to lead to peace between nations.
The concept of democracy is that it should never be given at the business-end of a M4 Carbine rifle. The people must be ready and willing to accept this form of governance. Just something to chew on.
Now, it's seems obvious that you have a low opinion of "liberals". But, let me ask you: "do you truly believe they don't want to spread good will to all men and women as well"?
This is the parallel in my mind to GWB (and for the past few years, the Republicans) and the Sith: it is their will or they will enfore it through other means.
Everything from the way the Patriot Act was passed to the opinions on gay marriage to the nomination of Bolton to UN representative -- it's been shady politics.
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GTyper
Registered:
May '05
Date Posted:
5/31/05 6:09am
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
Also, we must remember that while the overall theme of the movies may have been about completely different and more "historical" events - it doesn't mean that segments don't pay homage to differing scenarios.
Let's remember that "the force" was once something that connected all living things. It's surrounds and binds them. It's flows through us. Blah blah ...
In a different, more scientific era, the force is helped along by midichlorians. Giving a scientific explaination for the purely metaphysical manifestation of the force.
Different themes for different times.
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darth_java
Registered:
Oct '04
Date Posted:
5/31/05 6:57am
Subject:
RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
In response to "Whipnsky"
My quote:
"And thirdly, if you wait until Bush (or ANY president for that matter) declares the U.S. an "empire" and stays more than two terms (in violation of the Constitution) and kills political dissidents, then guess what: YOU'VE WAITED TOO LONG!!!"
Whipnsky's response to me:
"
funny, something tells me you wouldn't necessarily apply that reasoning to someone like.....
SADDAM?? "
My current response:
Sorry Whipnsky but you're wrong. I do apply the same reasoning to Saddam. The world supported him for too long as well, and I'm very glad he's out of power. Unfortunately, we supported him back when he was still stoppable and we are just as responsible as anyone else for helping him get the level of power he got. Too bad so many people forget that part (or never learn it to begin with). Look at your world history in the 1980s. We supported Saddam and gave him lots of power back when we were fighting Iran. We helped make him into the tyrant he became. So not only did we wait too long, if it weren't for our help, he may have never been able to do the horrible things he did.
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