Jedi Council Forums - "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."

Jedi Council Forums » Star Wars Films » Revenge of the Sith »

Locked Topic | Read Only Topic | Previous Active Topic | Next Active Topic

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 » - Previous | Next | Reload

Author	Topic: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
King_Piccolo Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/21/05 7:34pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	Keep in mind, Palpatine mentioned that "there is no good, there is no evil". This moral relativism seems to be the philosophical opposite of "Only the Sith deal in absolutes". -----signature----- I have sidekicks that make the Death Star look like a squirt gun! - Son Goku
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
forever_jedi Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 5/21/05 7:34pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	As SAND-CRAWLER explained on Page 1, Anakin sees galactic politics in absolutes. Back from the AotC days. Till the OT in fact. He doesn't understand that democracy is ALWAYS shades of grey, discussions, POVS. As Padme explained to him during the Naboo picnic. Unlike fascism, which is what he embraces and has always secretly wanted. "Only a Sith Lord deals in absolutes... " I love this line! -----signature----- “Kenobi was luminous, a transparent being, a window onto a sunlit meadow of the Force.” RotS, Matt Stover. "The Force will be with you, always."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
King_Piccolo Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/21/05 7:37pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	It seems to me that both Jedi and Sith philosophies are ultimately flawed. Neither can purport to be true evil or true good. It reminds of the Vorlon-Shadow dichotomy in Babylon 5. As President Sheridan said (paraphrased): "To HELL with both of you!" -----signature----- I have sidekicks that make the Death Star look like a squirt gun! - Son Goku
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
halfwits-r-us Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 5/21/05 7:46pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	babylon 5 hahahahaha!!! WTH. Yeah but you are right they are both flawed thus the whole blance of the force thing and prophecy dealy. -----signature----- "he loves puppies and hates mean things, you have to find terrance not guilty or else he'll kill you!!" http://outerrimsieges.com/boards/index.php
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Darth_Aussie Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 5/21/05 7:55pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	Yup, if you really want to analyse said line, then it makes no sense. But at least we all know what Obi-Wan is getting at. On the related subject...of politics...it's obvious to even the most brain-dead individual that ROTS has far more parallels with the creation of totalitarian regimes/empires (e.g. Nazi Germany, the Roman Empire) than it does to ANY modern democratic nation (be it America, France, Australia, Canada, etc). -----signature----- "Oh my God! UNCLE SLAM has just defeated OSAMA BIN ROTTEN! But wait, here comes Secretary of Hate, COLIN KAPOW! And he's dropping sanctions...by which I mean anvils!"
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
forever_jedi Registered: Jun '02	Date Posted: 5/21/05 8:01pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	On the related subject...of politics...it's obvious to even the most brain-dead individual that ROTS has far more parallels with the creation of totalitarian regimes/empires (e.g. Nazi Germany, the Roman Empire) than it does to ANY modern democratic nation (be it America, France, Australia, Canada, etc). Well said! Yet from the many many posts and threads about Republicans vs. Democrats etc., it's astounding just how many brain-dead people are around! -----signature----- “Kenobi was luminous, a transparent being, a window onto a sunlit meadow of the Force.” RotS, Matt Stover. "The Force will be with you, always."
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
SY-SNOOTLES Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 5/21/05 8:08pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	Hello All, Ahem, allow me to quote a little green friend of ours: "Try not. Do or do not. There is no try." I'd say that's pretty much dealing with absolutes. BYE! -----signature----- "I'm from Canada and the think I'm slow, eh." "How typical."-- C3P0 "What are you looking at?" - the innocent words of a drunken child
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Darth_Overlord Registered: Jul '01	Date Posted: 5/21/05 8:12pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	This line has been driving me crazy, as well. Has Obi-Wan suddenly joined the Dark Side or something? Palpatine is the one who doesn't deal in absolutes: there is no good, no evil... the Jedi and the Sith are really the same... the Sith are only evil from the Jedi's point of view... I've taken a more open view of the Force by exploring all pathways... etc. Now if he's not giving a final philosophy lesson but is trying to say that he is his friend though he rejects his Sith ways, there are more precise ways to express this. -----signature----- "The whole modern world has divided itself into Conservatives and Progressives. The business of Progressives is to go on making mistakes. The business of the Conservatives is to prevent the mistakes from being corrected." -G.K. Chesterton
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Orionsangel Registered: Feb '04	Date Posted: 5/21/05 8:13pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	This movie will be discussed for decades to come, but that's a good thing. That's what a good SW movie supposed to do.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Lapti_Nek Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 5/21/05 8:19pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	ONE MORE TIME for the people who didn't read other threads: Both the Jedi Order and the Sith deal in moral absolutes. Obi-Wan's comment was just UNDERLINING the hypocrisy of the Jedi Order. The Jedi Order takes toddlers from their families and cuts off contact entirely. They teach the children a certain moral viewpoint, and expect them to live under monastic rules and follow a code of conduct with no attachments, no lovers, no close friends outside the Jedi Order, and no family ties. The child never has a choice- It's either stay with the Jedi Order, or be deemed a failure and a "dark" Jedi for breaking the rules of the Order. There is no grey area. The Jedi Order truly believes in the "With us or against us" mantra. The Jedi truly believe they define "good" and that they are "selfless" and care nothing for themselves, yet their behavior in TPM and AOTC would lead us to believe otherwise. They are arrogant, overconfident, and can only see things in black and white/Good vs. Evil. They are involved in beurocratic red tape and political ends because they truly believe that they are doing things "for the galaxy's own good". Even if the galaxy at large never asked for the Jedi Order to do so. AOTC and TPM show MANY instances of the Jedi Order being mired in these unnecessary rules, and Qui-Gon makes it clear that he thinks the Jedi Council is wrong to be so strict about the force. The Sith are more codependent. They crave power, and live for greed and selfishness. They use the force selfishly, and yet think they are doing things for the greater good. They enslave a galaxy because it's what they deem the best way to maintain order. They succeed each other through murder. BOTH sides deal in moral absolutes and extremes of the force. For Anakin to "return balance to the force" he had to destroy BOTH the Jedi Order and it's monastic rules and narrow-minded, arrogant dogma, and the Sith with their murderous, selfish ideals. BOTH had to be extinguished from the galaxy. Luke Skywalker is the first truly balanced Jedi. He has family, friends, love, possessions, attachments, and a NORMAL LIFE. He's not neck-deep in Jedi Order rules, dogma, or control. He's not threatened with expulsion every time he thinks for himself. He's also been raised with a good sense of justice and fairness. He's not greedy and doesn't crave power. Anakin DID bring balance to the force. He reset the force back to "zero" with no extremist organized religious cults dictating how the force should be interpreted. Luke doesn't listen to "the will of the force" but instead uses the force as an ally. The force is WITH him, not controlling him, not controlled by him. He is balance. The only Jedi before Luke to figure this out was Qui-Gon Jinn. He believed in the "living force" and skirted the rules of the Jedi Council (keeping him from becoming a council member, and gaining the title of "master" because they didn't like his tendency to break the rules, even if they couldn't question his results and rapport with the force.) Darth Maul HAD to kill Qui-Gon (and was, indeed, trained for JUST that purpose) to keep Qui-Gon from teaching Anakin about the living force (a philosophy which Obi-Wan disagreed with, and thus didn't teach to Anakin). The WHOLE POINT was that extremes are bad, and can lead to wars, suffering, and disaster.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
King_Piccolo Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/21/05 8:21pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	[quote]The WHOLE POINT was that extremes are bad, and can lead to wars, suffering, and disaster.[/quote] As President Sheridan said: "To HELL with both of them!" -----signature----- I have sidekicks that make the Death Star look like a squirt gun! - Son Goku
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
Dukhat Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 5/21/05 8:46pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	I agree with the long post above. Luke can love and be a Jedi, making him the awesome. -----signature----- Just say no to the prequels.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
EricOF Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/21/05 8:53pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	It's the one thing that makes me believe that there may have been some lines interjected to make a point about modern politics. It fails miserably for all the reasons mentioned. Probably no other films in history view morality in such absolute binary fashion. Let me know when any Jedi masters the Grey Side of the Force.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
bubbles Registered: Feb '02	Date Posted: 5/21/05 9:25pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	Exactly... I think this line exlimplifies Obiwan's total failure to Anakin. He's so busy trying to counter what Anakin is saying, he's not really listening to him, trying to understand what's really going on with him. "Once you start down the dark path, forever will it dominate your destiny" sounds like an absolute as well. Obiwan thought he was already lost, but this line seemed to drive Anakin further into Vader. Padme questions whether they are on the right side of the battle. Anakin questions whether he's on the right side of the force. But Obiwan never questions anything, save QuiGon's judgement. Perhaps if he'd approached Anakin's training from a less absolute position, things would have gone differently. I agree with the above assertion that balance of the force means avoiding extremes from either end. I prefer to think of it as an inner balance. IMO, the most powerful Jedi have all had a brush with the dark side, and come away from it with a deeper understanding. I realize George has stated what balance of the force means, I just dont happen to agree with him.
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History
wiggedywhacked Registered: Nov '00	Date Posted: 5/21/05 9:33pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	ABSOLUTELY
	Locked Topic \| Active Topic Notification \| Private Message \| Post History

1 | 2 | 3 | 4 | 5 | 6 | 7 | 8 | 9 | 10 » - Previous | Next | Reload

Jedi Council Forums » Star Wars Films » Revenge of the Sith »