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Author	Topic: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
AdmiralNeeda Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 5/24/05 7:08am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	Obi-Wan has never dealt in absolutes... "Luke you're going to find that a great many of the truths we cling to depend greatly on our point of view..." -----signature----- Fanfics: http://boards.theforce.net/message.asp?topic=17909403&start=17955058
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FurryFriend Registered: Mar '05	Date Posted: 5/24/05 7:11am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	>>And yes, he takes shots at Bush because if you actually follow what has happened over the past 3 years, this war in the middle east mirrors what Palpatine did in the PT. When Bush declares the U.S. an "empire" and stays more than two terms (in violation of the Constitution) and kills political dissidents, come back and we'll talk. Otherwise, being a political retard only harms your cause. You have many people in the US rolling their eyes when people compare Star Wars to the real world. They'd tell you: "HEY GEEK, THIS IS JUST A FREAKING MOVIE, YOU DORK!". -----signature----- PLS NOTE: Even if I have criticism of ROTS, just wanna remind you, I absolutely loved it. My ROTS review on Rottentomatoes blog: http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/journal_view.php?month=5&day=22&year=2005&journalid=217965&view=publi c
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Leonidas Registered: Oct '03	Date Posted: 5/24/05 8:06am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	Quick! Lets shut everyone up who doesn't agree with us! -----signature----- "Tell the Spartans, stranger passing by, that here obedient to their laws we lie." ~The Poet Simonides, engraved on an ancient monument commemorating the fallen defenders of Thermopylae. "Molon labe" ~King Leonidas just before the battle of Thermopylae.
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MatthewZ Registered: Sep '03	Date Posted: 5/24/05 11:22am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	>>BTW: I'm not American. Like many in on this planet,I'm just someone who finds George Bush to be a clueless simpleton and Fox News to be an embarrassment. Well, if you haven't noticed by now...Americans don't care what other countries think. Just as I'm sure other countries don't care what Americans think of them. -----signature----- What I posted was true......from a certain point of view.
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Qui-GonGinandJuice Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 5/24/05 11:40am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	>>>When Bush declares the U.S. an "empire" and stays more than two terms (in violation of the Constitution) and kills political dissidents, come back and we'll talk. Otherwise, being a political retard only harms your cause. You have many people in the US rolling their eyes when people compare Star Wars to the real world. They'd tell you: "HEY GEEK, THIS IS JUST A FREAKING MOVIE, YOU DORK!". It's not just a movie. Lucas' vision of the Empire has real-world roots. He wants to show how a democracy can be corrupted through the lies and ambitions of powerful people until one day it's a democracy in name only. This has happened to various degrees all over the world in the last century. The best (and worst) example would be Hitler coming to power in Germany. The Empire is a warning to us to stay true to our concept of democracy and make sure we don't fall for the machinations of charismatic politicians. Also, Lucas may not have been comparing Sidious and Bush, and the line is somewhat generic having appeared in many places and contexts, but "If you are not with me, you are my enemy" in this movie was most definitely inspired by Bush's terrorist comment.
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darth_java Registered: Oct '04	Date Posted: 5/24/05 11:44am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	FurryFriend said: When Bush declares the U.S. an "empire" and stays more than two terms (in violation of the Constitution) and kills political dissidents, come back and we'll talk. Otherwise, being a political retard only harms your cause. You have many people in the US rolling their eyes when people compare Star Wars to the real world. They'd tell you: "HEY GEEK, THIS IS JUST A FREAKING MOVIE, YOU DORK!". First of all, there's no need for namecalling everyone. Just because they may be making points that you don't agree with doesn't make them a "political retard". Secondly, this is a star wars forum and it's more than fair to discuss how Star Wars mirrors our own lives. That's been one of the defining characteristics of any story for centuries. I happen to know a lot of people who try to find similarities between their lives and the lives of some guy in a book that was written around 2000 years ago. You may have heard of it before, it's called "the bible" or something like that. Are these people any more or less "dorky" for taking lessons from that book than we are for learning a few life lessons from Star Wars? At least Star Wars' writers are more current. And thirdly, if you wait until Bush (or ANY president for that matter) declares the U.S. an "empire" and stays more than two terms (in violation of the Constitution) and kills political dissidents, then guess what: YOU'VE WAITED TOO LONG!!!
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Ronin-Sith Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 5/24/05 11:56am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	I agree with all of you. Absolutely. -----signature----- "The ronin or masterless samurai; a man of action expelled from his previous vocation to walk a path of personal and spiritual enlightenment in a landscape of mistrust, deceit, and pessimism." -Robert M. Perry "Damned Samurai"
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SaberLover Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 5/24/05 12:49pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	They are talking about DEMOCRACY. The Jedi way is to support and protect the decisions of the senate(the masses). The Jedi submit their wishes to the wishes of the republic. The Sith way is to force their will on everyone. That's what Obiwan is saying. He's saying that the Jedi way is democracy but the Sith way is tyranny. Obiwan could see that Anakin was turning into a dictator and he knew he had to be stopped. I agree with the above.. Im not sure why you guys are not grasping this one.. See below from Attack of the clones , to what Lucas was alluding to.. Its pretty obvious... PADME You really don't like politicians, do you? NAKIN I like two or three, but I'm not really sure about one of them. (smiling)I don't think the system works. PADME How would you have it work? ANAKIN We need a system where the politicians sit down and discuss the problems, agree what's in the best interests of all the people,and then do it. PADME That is exactly what we do. The trouble is that people don't always agree. In fact, they hardly ever do. ANAKIN Then they should be made to. PADME By whom? Who's going to make them? ANAKIN I don't know. Someone. PADME You? ANAKIN Of course not me. PADME But someone. ANAKIN Someone wise. PADME That sounds an awful lot like a dictatorship to me. A mischievious little grin creeps across his face.
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DarthSapient Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 5/25/05 8:24am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	Upping this for a PM request to start an identical thread.
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whipnisky Registered: Nov '04	Date Posted: 5/25/05 8:33am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	"And thirdly, if you wait until Bush (or ANY president for that matter) declares the U.S. an "empire" and stays more than two terms (in violation of the Constitution) and kills political dissidents, then guess what: YOU'VE WAITED TOO LONG!!!" funny, something tells me you wouldn't necessarily apply that reasoning to someone like..... SADDAM??
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episodenone Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 5/25/05 8:50am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	Yoda: "Do or do not. There is no try." Sounds pretty absolute to me!!! I don't like the line personally. I woulda cut or changed it - but i can certainly live with it. EDIT: Thanks Spaient. and serioulsy - lets stay on topic -- i am really not interested in anyone's real world political views - i am sure there are plenty of threads to continue those discussions. -----signature----- you have to be trusted by the people that you lie to -pink floyd
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UK Sullustian Registered: Nov '98	Date Posted: 5/25/05 11:03am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	The Jedi use their wisdom to negotiate, to discuss. They only use Force at the appropriate time. They believe in justice, in everything that is good, and like a Buddhist they believe in trying to influence others with grace and care. The Jedi way requires internal calm and focus and serenity. That is where "Do or do not, there is no try" comes from. The Sith believe in Control, Command. Domination. With or Against. Win or Lose. Power or Slavery. To enforce your beliefs on others. They believe in external enforced "calm" and "serenity". Via oppression and suppression of others. They due this by/because they are self obbssesed and a fury of dark emotions. It's another example of the complete opposition that the Jedi and Sith. UKS -----signature----- http://www1.theforce.net/forum/Forum8/HTML/000974-2.html I am better than you - My reg date PROVES IT.
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SaberLover Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 5/25/05 11:40am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	episodenone, you are missing the point we are all making.. ""Yoda: "Do or do not. There is no try." Sounds pretty absolute to me!!! I don't like the line personally. " The Yoda quote you are using, was meant to portray to Luke, that the ability to move the ship, was "mind over matter".. The "mind over matter" theme, (AKA, "You must unlearn what you have learned" or "Size matters not") are "mind over matter" themes that are brought up Dozens of times in the original trilogy.. You are taking Yoda's quote completely out of context.. And you are also missing the point (and the theme) of the dialogue in both examples. Obiwan's quote is pertaining to politics... Its a completely different theme than Yoda's quote..
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episodenone Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 5/25/05 11:49am Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	ok. i see your point. -----signature----- you have to be trusted by the people that you lie to -pink floyd
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Ronin-Sith Registered: Jun '01	Date Posted: 5/25/05 1:53pm Subject: RE: "Only a Sith deals in absolutes..."
	I do not agree with all of you. Absolutely. -----signature----- "The ronin or masterless samurai; a man of action expelled from his previous vocation to walk a path of personal and spiritual enlightenment in a landscape of mistrust, deceit, and pessimism." -Robert M. Perry "Damned Samurai"
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