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Author	Topic: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
Darth_Brimstone Registered: Oct '01	Date Posted: 5/19/05 2:48pm Subject: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	i grew up living Darth Vader, read everything there was on him and anything that had to do with him since 1977 He was always my favorite villain as well as movie character ever. after watching this movie, I found it to break my heart on how he turned to the dark side, or in this case was corerced by the punk Palpatine. The way he was burned. the way he lost his true love. the way he turned in desperation only cause of a lame promise by Palpatine. this made me not only heartbroken, but i broke down crying for him. I read the novels, and the movie removed alot that was in the novel that needed to be in it. when I read the novel, I understood that he was jealous of Obi-wan cause Palp made him believe there was something going on between him and padme, an affair of somesorts. but in this movie, it was his love for her and his desire, no, his fear of losing here in death that overwhelmingly brought his fall to the darkside. to watch him fight obi-wan was briliant and it answered alot of questions, but to see how heartless Obi-wan was to Anakin and not giving him the killing blow instead of just letting him burn there, made me really sad for how he turned. I can never look at Anakin/Vader the same again. I cried when he died in ROTJ, and I cried when he died (figurativly) in ROTS. I certainly hope that the TV series does its justice to make it look like that Vader is misguided, not pure evil as this movie protrayed him. I don't doubt others like you felt the same as I did seeing this and was taken aback from what you thought of Anakin before to a whole new perspective. Rest in Peace Padme. Anakin will be redeemed
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GreedoCMZ Registered: Mar '99	Date Posted: 5/19/05 2:49pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	He's partly evil, partly misguided. I don't have any problem with it. -----signature----- Member of Inside Report I tolerate Jar Jar so bad I can't stand it. http://www.pitdroids.net
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MeliDef Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/19/05 3:01pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	It's alot like Macbeth in that aspect. Guy confused by promises of power does evil things to obtain that power but redeems himself in the end. It really showed him as a lost person consumed by his own need to be validated so he felt that the dark side was the only way to go. His love for Padme got twisted and lost. It was sad to see him ask about her after he was in his full Vader garb and Darth Sidious/ Palpatine smile at yet another lie he told him. Very tragic.
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DarthScubbles Registered: Sep '04	Date Posted: 5/19/05 3:02pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	He is the definition of a greek tragedy. He wants more power to save the one he loves, and in turn ends up killing her b/c of this power. -----signature----- In-House Counsel of the Lobster Division of the 3SA
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Princess_Tina Registered: May '01	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:15pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	He was not so much coerced as he was blatantly manipulated.
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Circle_Is_Complete Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:27pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	He was bombarded with too much from everyone too. Pressured by them and even himself. I had been saying i thought a reason people may not have like the prequel that did enjoy the OT was they took away from that pure evil idea we had of Vader. Its what many of our symbol of evil was. He was an absolute and you could hate him. ROTJ took a bit away from it but the PT gave this character humanity. I personally like the story more. I like it when characters have a human element of inperfections. First of all physically everytime i watch the OT i will see him different. It was ironic that the thing that got him to delve into the dark side were the dreams about Padme dying and it was EXACTLY the thing that caused it to become prophetic. Had he not allowed himself to be seduced the choking wouldnt have occured nor the heartbreak he caused her. He may have eventually turned later when they kicked him out as a jedi when they found out he was married but she wouldnt have died like that. To me THAT is tragic!! -----signature----- Mrs. Bluth to Annyong: "Here is some money, go see a Star War" Obi-Wan to Palpatine "Sith are our speciality" New member of the Obi-Wan Kenobi fan club!
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Darth_Menace Registered: May '02	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:31pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	yeah was this Darth dude that palpatine talks about even real? or was this just another lie?
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dexters Registered: Dec '01	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:33pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	Lucas describes Vader as a 'pathetic' person which he is after his disfigurement/dismemberment. He no longer was the powerful Sith as he was. But in a world without Jedis fighting him openly, he was still damn powerful, with the force choke and all. -----signature----- Current Star Wars Rankings 1) ROTS/ESB (9/10) 2) ANH (8/10) 3) ROTJ (7.5/10) 4) TPM (7/10) 5) AOTC (6.5/10) MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU! ALWAYS! Visit my RT film journal http://www.rottentomatoes.com/vine/j/dexters
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Jez_3-14159265358979 Registered: Aug '01	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:35pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	what i love about the pt and ot is how it puts the whole anakin story together. even when i was younger before pt i knew that anakin had to be tricked somehow. i just couldn't believe that he was pure evil. if he was just pure evil he could not have been saved. now i know that it's a little of both, which ,in my opinion, makes his redemption easier to believe. -----signature----- "She Drew a Circle that left me out, Heritic, Rebel, a thing to flout, But my heart had wit to win, I drew a circle that took her in."
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Circle_Is_Complete Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:36pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	I believe it was true, i also think its funny how proud of himself he is when saying,"He helped others stay alive but could save himself from his own apprentice"(not exact quote) and yet he dies at the hands of his years later. -----signature----- Mrs. Bluth to Annyong: "Here is some money, go see a Star War" Obi-Wan to Palpatine "Sith are our speciality" New member of the Obi-Wan Kenobi fan club!
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jaguaro Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:36pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	Great discussion, this is what I think: Now for a lot of people, this might not make sense, because Anakin clearly makes his choice to join the Dark Side when he kills Mace Windu. To me though, his path towards the dark side- towards the man that we would come to know as THE Darth Vader- was not complete. Sure, this Anakin killed younglings and was trying as hard as he could to kill his mentor, but still.. it wasn't complete. Whatever you thought of his reasoning, it was based on the compassion he had for his wife. And I don't know.. I just kept thinking about how as Anakin was left for dead, the only thing that was keeping him going was his love for Padme. Not hate.. yeah he hates Obi Wan at that moment, but he has a will to live that can only come from the notion that he can save his wife. So anyway, to me the moment that Anakin REALLY turns is the moment he is informed that he "killed" Padme. I know a lot of people have made fun of this scene because Vader lets out an undignified "noooooo!" and lumbers around on new mechanical legs, but I think it's pretty much near flawless. And the smirk that Palpatine has, KNOWING that Anakin is now "his".. its just wow. He is basically a prisoner from then on- a henchman, and nothing more. He has lost his will, and the evil of Darth Vader has completely consumed him. -----signature----- Member since June '00! Honest! Just forgot my password.
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Elle-Wan Registered: Jul '04	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:38pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	It is a shame what happened to him. Though I loved ROTS there's something about it that leaves a bad taste in my mouth, and I'm not quite sure what it is. It's possibly the fact that Anakin's turn was so weak. By 'weak' I mean that it seems that if anyone (Obi-Wan, Mace, Yoda, Padme) had really tried to talk to him about his feelings he could have been pacified. Instead however he was left confused and feeling 'lost' because he was kept in the dark and used as a pawn by everyone. Consider if he had told Obi-Wan about his dreams and they had discussed the possible meaning. Obi-Wan knew they were married and he was already cool with that. He would have tried to help and lend insight into the nature of premonitions. Part of the fault is Anakin's, part is Padme's and part is the nature of the Jedi Code. Ultimately however, the fault is on Sidious. He may very well have implanted the 'premonitions' in Anakin's head. Another thing I've considered which reflects cleverness on Lucas' part: If, in the dream, Padme had died by violence Anakin could have known to protect her. But because the dream told him of some nebulous medical problem he had no way of preventing it by action.
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DarthZ07 Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:38pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	"yeah was this Darth dude that palpatine talks about even real? or was this just another lie?" I think that may have been the only time he was truthful to Anakin.
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TH421 Registered: Dec '04	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:41pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	Anakin had all the guidance he needed to make the right choices. It was clear to me that Yoda and Obi-Wan both had known about his relationship with Padmé - and refrained from taking an "official" interest. Yoda offered him good counsel on non-attatchment. Anakin didn't want to hear it. Palpatine told him what he wanted to hear, so he chose to believe a lie. His attatchments clouded his judgement. Mace sensed his conflict - and the consequent danger to Anakin -and out of concern for Anakin, commanded him to remain at the Temple. Obi-Wan sensed his conflict and apologized for the double-bind Anakin was in between the Council and Palpatine. Anakin chose to be insulted by the Council, but flattered by Palpatine. Anakin made his own choices. He could have let his love for Padmé make him a champion of her priciples (which from what we were shown were the guiding democratic principles of the Old Republic) rather than loving her possessively and dismissing her beliefs as irrelevant (which I always found somewhat demeaning). But he wanted to have it all... and his greed and ambition doomed him. He was manipulated - but only through disobedience to a code he was pledged to uphold, and dismissing the guidance of his mentors, and the advice of the woman he claimed to love. I think he dug his own grave, and while I can agree the results were tragic, I cannot find much sympathy for him. -----signature----- -------------- --F.I.G.S.-- --------------
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wonder_alice Registered: May '05	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:43pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	Vader has become a tragic hero for me now. His fall in ROTS made me cry. I always thought his redemption in ROTJ was a bit corny, but now I can't see the OT ending any other way. (I also read somewhere about someone now actually understanding and even liking ghost-Hayden now at the end of the ROTJ DVD. I feel the same way.) -----signature----- forever an unconventional shipper... ---------------------------------------------------- Chewie kicks butt.
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padawan-yoda Registered: Apr '05	Date Posted: 5/20/05 11:44pm Subject: RE: Now I See Vader In A Whole New Light - Sad Opinion
	killing the younglings and saving palpatine from mace really made me dislike him
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