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Topic:
Anakin, you idiot!
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Nefertiti
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 7:54am
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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Obsession is not always a bad thing. It can motivate people to do great things. To be more than they are or could be. It wasn’t wrong that the 10 year old Anakin find in Padmé the hero she was and to fixate on her. Want to be like her. With her. It was sweet to see them talking and just being people. When he gave her the snipet, you can almost see that it’s not going to be good for them. Right there don’t you want to jump in and have that “talk” with them? But somewhere in between – during those ten years – Anakin changed. Palps influence. Anakin own insecurities. The Jedi’s lack of attention. But he still had that hero worship for Padmé. She was still the one thing that didn’t change – except to grow more beautiful.
But you can’t build on lies. If …man, so many ifs. If they wanted to be together he should have left the Order. But, he wasn’t going to do that. Ambition. There are rules in every society. If the rules don’t work. If they are unjust. Outdated. Change them. To blithely break them and not foresee consequences…? These kids never had a chance. But I wanted them to. Oh, yes. I did.
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Obi_Frans
Registered:
Jul '03
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 9:52am
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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RebelScum77 posted:
How do you back that up? All we see in the films is them getting married at the end of AOTC, clearly she has forgiven his earlier indescretions, and then the obvious love between them when they first meet in ROTS.
"How long is it going to take for us to be honest with each other?"
"Perhaps Obi-Wan can help?" "We don't need his help!"
"I don't believe that, and you're sounding like a Seperatist!"
"Ani don't do this, don't shut me out"
"Ani, I won't die - I promise you" "-No, I promise you!"
This is all before the turn. Anakin doesn't respect Padme anymore, or the ball would never have started rolling in the first place. He never once listens to her and sets his mind on what he feels is best for her from the moment he sees her. In both the novel and the unedited script he's distrustful and quick to anger with her from the moment he sees her. When he senses that she's hiding something from him he shakes her up and demands to know if there is someone else and this contineous throughout the movie. Those are not actions from a loving husband - they're from a paranoid and confused man.
He obeyed her wishes in AotC when she told him to back off, but not in RotS. What we see is Padme desperately trying to reach out to Anakin, and him very blatantly ignoring everything she throws at him. I mean come on, he's actually suprised that Padme opposes the war so strongly? It seems like he barely remembers the woman he once married - all he sees is the woman he wants her to be.
A part of him loves her, truly. But that part is buried just as much, if not more, as the part that realizes he's not the Jedi he should be, the part that realizes he's going down a dark path. He loves her - but either he's forgotten how to express it, or, as he later says himself, he simply isn't interested in love, hers or his, anymore.
- O_F
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"He only wanted to save them. Padme, from death. Obi-Wan, from ignorance
But they failed to recognize his power. Instead, Padme was dead & Obi-Wan was running for his life
As stripped of everything as Vader was. Without friends, family, purpose"
- Vader
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LadyZaraMarta
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 11:18am
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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Obi Frans - You said everything so well.
Anakin is married to the Dark Side now.
Padme is just a posession. He wants her because he wants.
As almost everyone else has said, Skywalker's love was a selfish, posessive love.
Padme's love for Anakin was true. She placed herself in danger. She was willing to give up everything for him.
BUT...here is where she is different. Padme would not follow his path, however much she loved him.
I bemoaned Padme's scenes in ROTS...all but this one. In those final moments, we once see Padme at her best. She cries for what the terrible deeds her husband has done - she loves him still...but she will not follow him.
I was greatly saddened by her death. I was hoping she would live for the children.
I have a question for all of you...
GL kept switching the scenes from Padme's labor and Vader's transformation into the suit.
Do you think there was a connection between Anakin and Padme so that she also felt his pain from the burns and trauma??
Do you think his pain, and the pain of childbirth are what killed her?
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rhonderoo
Title:
Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 11:22am
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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All love is a bit unhealthy, as we as humans tend to lose our better judgement when we fall in love. For better or worse. It's very easy to stand back afterwards and say, "I shouldn't have done that", or, "I need to end this." But we don't think clearly when we are in love and Anakin and Padme were no different.
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DT421  And the hot chick is really the sister of the good guy, but they don't know it, and they kiss. Which is kind of messed up. I mean, what if they had done it instead of just kissed?
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LadyZaraMarta
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 11:28am
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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"Love is blind."
and also deaf and dumb...
Anakin did not hear a word Padme said to him.
He was drunk on the Dark Side. He was on a high.
The look in his eyes, the expression on his face when he said he could depose Palpatine and they could rule the galaxy together.
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darth-sinister
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered:
Jun '01
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 11:33am
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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Very true. So very true. Anakin loved the idea of Padme, more than he actually loved her. That's not to say that he didn't love her as a human being at all. He was more in love with the fantasy than with the reality. In the novelization for AOTC, we see that Anakin has an ideal lifestyle that he wants. Something that can never really be, even if he were not a Jedi and Padme a Senator.
Han and Leia knew the reality of their situations and had no grand expections on who they wanted and how they wanted to be with that person. Han didn't care that Leia was a princess, a senator, a rebel and a Skywalker. All he cared about was her and the possibility of being more than just friends. Leia was initially concerned with the type of guy she was with. She liked nice men, but didn't have much use for scoundrels. She wanted someone who was much like her in many ways. Eventually, she let go of that ideal image and took Han for who and what he was. He did change from a scoundrel into a great man. A general and full fledged rebel, but it was a decision that he made on his own. Not because she wanted him to be that way. Neither objected to the other's lifestyle anymore. Han even was willing to accept that he couldn't be with Leia, if she loved Luke.
-----signature-----
Stewie: "Oh, this is an even bigger jackpot than when the Emperor
came up with the formula for great Star Wars dialouge."
Palpatine: "Something, something, something. Dark side.
Something, something, something complete."
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EwokThatCried
Registered:
May '03
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 11:39am
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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Han and Leia... they are a good example of unconditional love at work. Anakin and Padme placed certain conditions on the success of their relationship and each had their own idea of what was in their best interest. They were never on the same page on any issues.
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"Sir Carrie Fisher's Nipple" of the Knights of The 3SA Sarcasm Table George Lucas is a NO voter Overpowers means overpowers Gone, consumed, lost, murdered, ceased, destroyed, twisted, evil Outer Rim Sieges - http://boards.outerrimsieges.com
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Jedi-Queen
Registered:
Feb '05
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 11:43am
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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"But we don't think clearly when we are in love and Anakin and Padme were no different."
uh yeah, slaughtering people and choking your spouse take Ani
way off the normal scale IMO lol
sithr; yeah I know but Luke didn't love them selfishly or try
to deceive, hurt [choke] any of them. 
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"Shoot for the moon.
Even if you miss, you'll land among the stars."
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Jedi_Momma
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 12:06pm
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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Jedi-Queen posted:
"But we don't think clearly when we are in love and Anakin and Padme were no different."
uh yeah, slaughtering people and choking your spouse take Ani
way off the normal scale IMO lol
sithr; yeah I know but Luke didn't love them selfishly or try
to deceive, hurt [choke] any of them.
Well, also that "not thinking" period usually wears off after 3 - 6 months as the love matures. Ani and Padme's love never seemed to reach that state. Perhaps because they just didn't get to spend enough time together or perhaps because of their relationship's clandestine nature but (being married twice myself) they come across more like a couple of high school kids than a married couple to me.
Except, I must admit, for the scene where Padme tells Ani about the baby. That rang true and awww, my heart just broke for them there. "This baby is a blessing..."  (See I'm just a softie after all.  )
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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. Galileo Galilei
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rhonderoo
Title:
Former Head Admin
Registered:
Aug '02
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 12:10pm
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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uh yeah, slaughtering people and choking your spouse take Ani way off the normal scale IMO lol
This is a movie. Just a reminder, there.
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DT421 And the hot chick is really the sister of the good guy, but they don't know it, and they kiss. Which is kind of messed up. I mean, what if they had done it instead of just kissed?
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Nefertiti
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 12:11pm
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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I like to think that Lucas purposely let the questions in their relationship stand, to provoke conversation about it. Anakin’s ideas about love, what it was, how is was, what it felt like were different than Padme’s. As are our own ideas about love. Foundationally, he wasn’t honest with her. He made the decision in their relationship. She was to do what she was told – and that wasn’t Padmé. The separation only added to the mistrust…and let’s not forgot Palpatine’s power over him.
Always enjoyable to hear old ideas refurbished and re-presented. Extremely enjoyable.
Jedi-Momma - I agree. Though he "seemed" to hesitate (as generally men do, yes?) I believed his happiness.
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LadyZaraMarta
Registered:
Aug '04
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 12:20pm
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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Ok....Anakin is a handsome devil...and we probably would be (ladies) attracted to him.
But would you stay with the fellow?
What favorable personality characteristics does the fellow have?
1 At 1 time he was generous.
2 At 1 time he was unselfish.
Both attributes vanished, submerged under the Dark Side.
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Jedi_Momma
Registered:
Nov '05
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 12:28pm
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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Nefertiti posted:
Jedi-Momma - I agree. Though he "seemed" to hesitate (as generally men do, yes?) I believed his happiness.
Believe me - they do ! Even when they're expecting the news they get that 'Oh. my. god. What have we gotten ourselves into?' look on their faces the first time. Well played by Hayden.
(You should see the look they get when you tell 'em it's going to be twins  ! Just as well she didn't lay that bombshell on him.)
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I do not feel obliged to believe that the same God who has endowed us with sense, reason, and intellect has intended us to forgo their use. Galileo Galilei
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Nefertiti
Registered:
Oct '04
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Date Posted:
12/6/05 12:37pm
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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Hahaha LoL ... I can see poor Ani's face.. "Twins!"
Qui-gon dropped into the Jedi laps the prophecied Chosen One (no argument). When you get a gift, you take care of it.
Again with the ifs.... But if the Jedi had shown the right amount of care, cultivated his respect and gave him respect - Lucas might not have had a story to tell.
If Anakin had opened his mouth and talked...really talked to his good friend, almost brother, maybe father-figure. Lucas might not have had a story to tell.
If Padme, who trusted in Obi-1 had told him about the Sand people, about the couples feeling...hell, about the marriage even after it happened... Lucas might not be as wealthy as he is.
And of course, Palpatine. Sublime emotional manipulation.
And we, the audience, ponder, argue, agree and fuss over our own intrepretations.
Ain't life grand!!
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AnnLouise
Registered:
Jul '05
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Date Posted:
12/7/05 1:44pm
Subject:
RE: Anakin, you idiot!
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lovelucas posted:
"Luke and Leia are like the anti-Anakin and anti-Padme respectively"
what??? the twins are exactly like their parents...the only difference is they don't have the puppet master manipulating their every move towards his own ends.
IMO, they also had some ability to think things through. It can't be laid all at the feet of Palpy. To quote Homer Simpson, "Marge, it takes two to lie; one to lie and one to listen." Anakin wanted to listen. He didn't take the effort to think anything through.
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"You're not too smart, are you? I like that in a man" Matty Walker - Body Heat (1981) http://thehungersite.com http://www.endabuse.org http://www.librarything.com Catalog Your Books Online Violence Against Women Is Always Wrong
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