Nefertiti posted:Hahaha LoL ... I can see poor Ani's face.. "Twins!" Qui-gon dropped into the Jedi laps the prophecied Chosen One (no argument). When you get a gift, you take care of it. Again with the ifs.... But if the Jedi had shown the right amount of care, cultivated his respect and gave him respect - Lucas might not have had a story to tell. If Anakin had opened his mouth and talked...really talked to his good friend, almost brother, maybe father-figure. Lucas might not have had a story to tell. If Padme, who trusted in Obi-1 had told him about the Sand people, about the couples feeling...hell, about the marriage even after it happened... Lucas might not be as wealthy as he is. And of course, Palpatine. Sublime emotional manipulation. And we, the audience, ponder, argue, agree and fuss over our own intrepretations. Ain't life grand!!
RamRed posted:If you're going to accuse Anakin of harboring an unhealthy and obssesive love for Padme, you might as well accuse Luke of harboring an obssessive love for Han and especially, Leia. It was because of both Leia and Han that Luke had foolishly interrupted his Jedi training to "rescue" them from Bespin. And it was Luke's love for Leia that caused him to snap and nearly kill Vader in a fit of rage. While we're at it, one might as well say that Obi-Wan's love for Qui-Gon was also obssessive and dangerous. It was due to his love for his mentor that Obi-Wan slipped into a fit of rage during his fight against Maul.
AnnLouise posted:lovelucas posted:"Luke and Leia are like the anti-Anakin and anti-Padme respectively" what??? the twins are exactly like their parents...the only difference is they don't have the puppet master manipulating their every move towards his own ends. IMO, they also had some ability to think things through. It can't be laid all at the feet of Palpy. To quote Homer Simpson, "Marge, it takes two to lie; one to lie and one to listen." Anakin wanted to listen. He didn't take the effort to think anything through.
lovelucas posted:"Luke and Leia are like the anti-Anakin and anti-Padme respectively" what??? the twins are exactly like their parents...the only difference is they don't have the puppet master manipulating their every move towards his own ends.
bariss posted:RamRed posted:If you're going to accuse Anakin of harboring an unhealthy and obssesive love for Padme, you might as well accuse Luke of harboring an obssessive love for Han and especially, Leia. It was because of both Leia and Han that Luke had foolishly interrupted his Jedi training to "rescue" them from Bespin. And it was Luke's love for Leia that caused him to snap and nearly kill Vader in a fit of rage. While we're at it, one might as well say that Obi-Wan's love for Qui-Gon was also obssessive and dangerous. It was due to his love for his mentor that Obi-Wan slipped into a fit of rage during his fight against Maul. But both Luke and Obi-Wan were able to let go of the anger and rage related to the fear of what might happen/had happened to those that they loved. When Obi-Wan is hanging in the pit in The Phantom Menace, the Force theme begins to play as he centers and calms himself before leaping and and slicing Maul. The music in Star Wars is subtext, I think, for what is happening in the story. I believe the Force theme playing while he is hanging in the pit represents Obi-Wan letting go of his anger.
darth-sinister posted:It's apparent that Luke had an unhealthy attachment to his friends in TESB. He's not willing to accept that there are possibilities, which a Jedi deals in. A Sith deals in absolutes. For a Sith, the future will happen no matter what. How you shape it plays a part in it coming true. A Jedi sees that the future is always in motion and accepts that it might change. Case in point, Obi-wan's wearing his robe in the vision of Padme dying, but he's not when it comes to pass. What saves Luke in ROTJ is that he sees his attachments and comes to understand how they can be used against him. He wants to keep moments frozen in time. He wants Han and Leia to live, even if it ruins their years of hard work and sacrifice. He wants Leia to avoid becoming a Jedi, so that she won't have to face their father. He wants to protect Leia from becoming a Sith Lord. He thinks that he can save the Alliance by giving into his anger and hate, because he knows that he's not strong enough to stop the Sith as a Jedi would. But Luke has the knowledge of what came before, when he looks at his hand and then his father's. He hears Palpatine's taunt. He knows the truth now and refuses to accept the lies that he has been told. He lets go of everything and throws away his weapon, making a calmer and more rational decision. As Lucas says, the Skywalker men are very much alike. Both are faced with situations that are either the same or very similar. Anakin says yes, but Luke says no. Anakin=The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Luke=The road not taken.
Nefertiti posted:darth-sinister posted:It's apparent that Luke had an unhealthy attachment to his friends in TESB. He's not willing to accept that there are possibilities, which a Jedi deals in. A Sith deals in absolutes. For a Sith, the future will happen no matter what. How you shape it plays a part in it coming true. A Jedi sees that the future is always in motion and accepts that it might change. Case in point, Obi-wan's wearing his robe in the vision of Padme dying, but he's not when it comes to pass. What saves Luke in ROTJ is that he sees his attachments and comes to understand how they can be used against him. He wants to keep moments frozen in time. He wants Han and Leia to live, even if it ruins their years of hard work and sacrifice. He wants Leia to avoid becoming a Jedi, so that she won't have to face their father. He wants to protect Leia from becoming a Sith Lord. He thinks that he can save the Alliance by giving into his anger and hate, because he knows that he's not strong enough to stop the Sith as a Jedi would. But Luke has the knowledge of what came before, when he looks at his hand and then his father's. He hears Palpatine's taunt. He knows the truth now and refuses to accept the lies that he has been told. He lets go of everything and throws away his weapon, making a calmer and more rational decision. As Lucas says, the Skywalker men are very much alike. Both are faced with situations that are either the same or very similar. Anakin says yes, but Luke says no. Anakin=The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Luke=The road not taken. Agree...except to the "unheathly" attachment. Yes, Luke did have attachments, but don't believe that they were unhealthy. He was not a Jedi when he became friends with these people and as he did become Jedi, I like to think he saw the error in that thinking. Yes, he made the decision to stop his training and help Leia and Han in ESB, but that decision wasn't selfish...it wasn't to his benefit. He didn't gain, except to keep them alive. Others didn't suffer because of his decision. Vader's decisions would benefit him (or so he thought, his decisions made others suffer. So, for that one word... I agree with your post.
Nefertiti posted:Agree...except to the "unheathly" attachment. Yes, Luke did have attachments, but don't believe that they were unhealthy. He was not a Jedi when he became friends with these people and as he did become Jedi, I like to think he saw the error in that thinking. Yes, he made the decision to stop his training and help Leia and Han in ESB, but that decision wasn't selfish...it wasn't to his benefit. He didn't gain, except to keep them alive. Others didn't suffer because of his decision. Vader's decisions would benefit him (or so he thought, his decisions made others suffer. So, for that one word... I agree with your post.
Obi_Frans posted:Nefertiti posted:Agree...except to the "unheathly" attachment. Yes, Luke did have attachments, but don't believe that they were unhealthy. He was not a Jedi when he became friends with these people and as he did become Jedi, I like to think he saw the error in that thinking. Yes, he made the decision to stop his training and help Leia and Han in ESB, but that decision wasn't selfish...it wasn't to his benefit. He didn't gain, except to keep them alive. Others didn't suffer because of his decision. Vader's decisions would benefit him (or so he thought, his decisions made others suffer. So, for that one word... I agree with your post. But it did almost happen, Leia had to risk her, and Chewie/Lando's, lives to turn back and go and save Luke. He didn't achieve anything by going to ESB, and he risked getting his sister either killed or taken captive - the very thing he set out to prevent, which is the same thing Anakin did. Killing Padme even though he started out trying to prevent it. - O_F
