Author Topic: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
r8hitman  4085 posts
Registered: Mar '04
13617_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 7/8/05 9:47am Subject: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
I was thinking about a couple of things that dont add up.

OK now most of us assume that Darth Sidious is Plagueis' apprentice (visual guide), but can we really be sure of that?

Darth Plagueis was supposed to be a "Sith Legend" that the jedi could have possibly known about, now if that's the case and the "legend" of Darth Plagueis is true, then that means that Plagueis would have had to have been around at least a millenium before the events of TPM. (remember Ki-Adi Mundi's words..."the sith have been extinct for a millenium") which means that if his power to cheat death is known of by the jedi (even if it is considered to just be a legend) then Sidious being his apprentice would mean that Sidious must have been around hundreds of years before TPM.

But people keep argueing over the age of Darth Sidious....some people insist on believing that he's only in his sixties while others (myself included) believe that he's "at least" a couple of hundred years old, but this Darth Plagueis story would require him to be even older than that.

If he's really the apprentice of a sith lord that the jedi would have known about then he might even be somewhere around Yoda's age.

Unless he's not REALLY Plagueis' apprentice....keep in mind that he NEVER, not once, during the movie says that he was, he tells the story of the "legend" of Darth Plagueis but how can we be 100% sure that he was that apprentice?

And if he was then that takes us back to the Sidious age issue, which would mean that he's an "ancient" human.

So either he wasnt Plagueis' apprentice or Sidious is up there with Yoda in the age department......which one is it??



thinking

 

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thechozn1  3063 posts
Registered: May '05
22665_Duel
Date Posted: 7/8/05 9:49am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
The Visual Dictionary and the novel say he is. Next...

 

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r8hitman  4085 posts
Registered: Mar '04
13617_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 7/8/05 9:51am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
So then we're back to the age of Sidious question.

How can he be the apprentice of a "legend" that the jedi would have known about and NOT be somewhere around Yoda's age?

 

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Blaine_The_Mono  341 posts
Registered: Apr '05
14386_Jon Snow<br>by Stephen Youll  (A&A)
Date Posted: 7/8/05 9:52am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
The Jedi say that the Sith are extinct but they don't know everything.

 

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voodoopuuduu  6846 posts
Title: Classic Trilogy Trivia Host
Registered: Mar '04
48595_Chewbacca Brian
Date Posted: 7/8/05 9:52am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Conversely, we have no reason not to believe it. As long as Anakin believes it, thats all that matters.

 

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r8hitman  4085 posts
Registered: Mar '04
13617_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 7/8/05 9:53am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Blaine_The_Mono posted:
The Jedi say that the Sith are extinct but they don't know everything.


But see it's implied in the movie that they would have known about the "legend of Darth Plagueis", so how do you answer that one?

EDIT:

And let's try to come up with something sensible...everytime something cant be explained the next option is to call someone a liar. (Vader's a liar....Obi-Wan's a liar....Sidious is a liar.. rolling_eyes c'monnnnnnn, EVERYBODY'S not lying all the time, especially Obi.)

 

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thechozn1  3063 posts
Registered: May '05
22665_Duel
Date Posted: 7/8/05 10:00am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
r8hitman posted:
[quote=Blaine_The_Mono]The Jedi say that the Sith are extinct but they don't know everything.


But see it's implied in the movie that they would have known about the "legend of Darth Plagueis", so how do you answer that one?


They knew about it? Anakin had never heard of it. It's one of two things, (1) Sids is older than dirt and dates back a millenia, or (2) and most likely it was a sith legend which meant only the sith knew about it. That would kinda narrow it down to Sids being the only one knowing. The novel says that Anakin wanted to become a master to get into the deeper parts of the library and find out about the legend, but who knows if it was there

 

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dcabswfan 
Registered: Jul '05
6615_Darth Vader
Date Posted: 7/8/05 10:02am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Yes. Read the novelization. In an earlier draft of the script (upon which the book was based), it was revealed to Anakin by Palpatine that Plagueis was Palpatine's Master and Palpatine murdered him after learning his secrets. This would also mean that Palpatine does in fact know how to extend someone's life using the Force. Such knowledge gives new insight into Vader's line in ROTJ: "You don't know the power of the Dark Side. I MUST obey my Master..."

 

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emporergerner  3219 posts
Registered: Jul '05
50513_H1118: Psycho
Date Posted: 7/8/05 10:02am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
Maybe Darth Plagueis was not a sith legend at all but more of a story by palpatine about his master to further persude anakin to the dark side

 

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r8hitman  4085 posts
Registered: Mar '04
13617_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 7/8/05 10:03am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
thechozn1 posted:
r8hitman posted:
[quote=Blaine_The_Mono]The Jedi say that the Sith are extinct but they don't know everything.


But see it's implied in the movie that they would have known about the "legend of Darth Plagueis", so how do you answer that one?


They knew about it? Anakin had never heard of it. It's one of two things, (1) Sids is older than dirt and dates back a millenia, or (2) and most likely it was a sith legend which meant only the sith knew about it. That would kinda narrow it down to Sids being the only one knowing. The novel says that Anakin wanted to become a master to get into the deeper parts of the library and find out about the legend, but who knows if it was there


Sidious told Anakin about Plagueis before he even revealed himself, leaving Anakin PLENTY of time to "ask around".

All Anakin had to do was simply ask Yoda or go to the library and find out.

And I dont think Sidious would have risked being caught in a lie this early on so there must have been some truth to what he was saying.

Even if the story is just a "legend".

 

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RolandofGilead  28205 posts
Title: Manager Emeritus
Registered: Jan '01
24056_Clone Trooper
Date Posted: 7/8/05 10:04am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
There's no better weapon for a liar than the truth. Dooku used it to great advantage in AotC when he told Obi-wan everything only to have the Jedi disbelieve him. The same holds here I think. Plagueis was real, and in the original script Sidious admits that he killed him in his sleep. Whether he truly learned to conquer death we will never know. But Sids seemed to take great pleasure in explaining how he could save everyone execpt himself. That gleam in his eye tells me he knows all about Plaugueis and his death from a very personal level.




And Blain, love the name. I'd wish you long days and pleasant nights but you tried to cheat my fellow gunslingers and we left you rotting in a Kansas that was long ago. wink

 

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thechozn1  3063 posts
Registered: May '05
22665_Duel
Date Posted: 7/8/05 10:07am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
All Anakin had to do was simply ask Yoda or go to the library and find out.


Again, the novel has your answer along with my previous post. He was only a Knight. He could not get into the "deeper" parts of the library that talked about force powers of the dark side. Only masters could do this. He couldn't just run down there and check it out

 

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r8hitman  4085 posts
Registered: Mar '04
13617_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 7/8/05 10:07am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
RolandofGilead posted:
There's no better weapon for a liar than the truth. Dooku used it to great advantage in AotC when he told Obi-wan everything only to have the Jedi disbelieve him. The same holds here I think. Plagueis was real, and in the original script Sidious admits that he killed him in his sleep. Whether he truly learned to conquer death we will never know. But Sids seemed to take great pleasure in explaining how he could save everyone execpt himself. That gleam in his eye tells me he knows all about Plaugueis and his death from a very personal level.



So then....how old is Sidious??

"If" the story is true.

 

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r8hitman  4085 posts
Registered: Mar '04
13617_Darth Maul
Date Posted: 7/8/05 10:08am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
thechozn1 posted:
All Anakin had to do was simply ask Yoda or go to the library and find out.


Again, the novel has your answer along with my previous post. He was only a Knight. He could not get into the "deeper" parts of the library that talked about force powers of the dark side. Only masters could do this. He couldn't just run down there and check it out


But he could have asked someone....and that leaves me to believe that Sidious was telling the truth about Plagueis, then that takes us back to the question I asked Roland^^^.



EDIT:
And this wasnt a question about Sidious' age or just simply a question about the legitimacy of the Plagueis story...it's a question to try and find out if this Plagueis story/Sidious age thing is a contradiction of each other or more detail about the sith/Sidious history.

 

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thechozn1  3063 posts
Registered: May '05
22665_Duel
Date Posted: 7/8/05 10:36am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
But he could have asked someone....


I can't think of a good way to bring that up without having to tell why I would want to know. He was having to sidestep the issue with the Jedi. Plus he didn't want to bail on his friend. He couldn't just say "So, Palps was saying there are parts of the force you guys are holding out on"

 

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Chameleon102  51 posts
Registered: May '05
23982_Anakin's Eye
Date Posted: 7/8/05 10:41am Subject: RE: Was Sidious REALLY Darth Plagueis' apprentice?
I think Sidious was Plagueis' apprentice.

Look at the opera scene when he turns away from Anakin and says the 'Ironic, he could save everyone else...' stuff. Look at the expression on his face. To me, that's Palpatine remembering the kill.

 

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